Toaster wrote: I somewhat agree with you here Tom, but "playing for second" is still "playing to lose." If you're not the last player to survive a game then you lost that individual contest, regardless of the future repercussions you were planning on.


On a similar note though, I do believe that placing second place (overall) in a tournament is fairly impressive and would like to see multiple trophy options (or at least stats) to award players accordingly.

I disagree.  Depending on the tournament type, 'playing for second' within any individual game is not playing to lose, it's playing to win.. the tournament.

"If you're not the last player to survive a game then you lost that individual contest..."

Well duh.  Unless it's a team game.  But that's just restating the question.  If the stats are separate, then if you want to play a game towards board rankings then play a game, if you want to play games towards tournament rankings join a tournament.  If they are combined, then you do not have a choice in the matter.  Since some people prefer that choice, then it should remain separate.

I agree second place in the tourny is also impressive and multiple trophies would be cool.

I also completely agree with BD original idea about limiting joins to people who have taken the time to upload a profile picture.  It always seems to be one of those things that really separates people who are just passing through from people who are interested.

I think IRoll should change his name to IRoll111s?

Will it be possible to change the trophy image in tournament play?   I was late getting around to it and now it looks like the default one was submitted.

Not once the tournament has started.

AntiScourge wrote:

BlackDog wrote: 

Also, what is the rationale behind not counting tourney games towards your normal game rankings? 

I'd really like to know the reason for this also. There's nothing really different about these games that they couldn't count towards your individual rankings

You mean Tournament scores of a board count to your Championship Points/Rankings on a Board?  If so then ya I'm against it counting as the same.  I'll expand on it later, but I'm thinking I'm really against it.

RiskyBack votes NO to tournament wins counting for Championship Points/Rankings. I could explain why but I just erased all that because I got insulting and I'm trying not to do that.
If you just want to play for rank than don't waste your time on tournaments. If you wanna play the same map several times and think that getting a trophy on your profile is pretty cool than join away.

I still haven't heard a good argument against combining the rankings. I agree that team games should never count towards your rankings.. but this is the same in and out of tourneys.

The playing for second debate is interesting, but I think it actually strengthens the cause of combining the rankings. Playing for second in order to keep going in a tourney is legitimate, but it should hurt you a bit!

Phil Ivy is considered the best Cash Game player in poker but is not really one of the top tournament players while Phil Helmuth is one of the most decorated tournament players but not a very feared Cash Game player by reputation. They are different skill sets. I don't know for sure if this is true here for Ranked games vs Tournament games but I would like to think it is and so that is one reason I am against it.
Also, people may not join tournaments because they don't want to hurt their rankings and so they just never play a map again? I think there should be a way that people can play maps against other players without having to worry about their standings.
Play for fun and maybe a trophy? Does that sound just silly? I don't think so and that's just one reason I think the system is correct now.

Also, people may not join tournaments because they don't want to hurt their rankings and so they just never play a map again?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  If they care about their rankings, then they should play tourney games to win, which is just like a normal game.  You aren't penalized for joining a tourney and not winning it.

I think there should be a way that people can play maps against other players without having to worry about their standings.

Then private games and tourneys should have a "casual" option where they don't count towards rankings.  This really doesn't have anything to do with tourneys.

Play for fun and maybe a trophy? Does that sound just silly? I don't think so and that's just one reason I think the system is correct now.

I don't think that sounds silly, I think it should be a choice, I and think the "casual" idea addresses it nicely.

Ok not sure if this is broke or not, But in the bacon tourny there are two games at 2 days and 2 hours. Should the player not either be skipped or booted. NOt sure which it would be since they havent joined there game yet. Tom could you look into this?

I prefer to keep the rankings separate. I know many people here and on ToS that only play tournaments or only play ranked games. They all have a variety of subjective reasons for doing so, but for whatever reasons, there seems to be some distinction between the game types. I suppose time will tell if the top of both leaderboards ends up filled with all the same people in the same order....

Risky's argument seems like a good enough reason to keep it separate to me.

I for one can say that if tournament games counted toward my overall board rankings, I would not participate in tournaments except tournaments where every game is 1v1.

In tournaments where two or more players advance (which I understand are in the works) to the next round, there is a tendency for first round allying that carries throughout the tournament. Sometimes this leads to rounds where you lose because it is really a game of 2v1v1 (not all opponents are playing to win, but to advance).

Also, I agree with what was stated earlier, in tournaments where 2 or more people advance, there is a strategic tournament advantage to play for second in early rounds so as to advance in the tournament. This in my mind is what separates tournament play from regular play.

For example, if there are three people left in a game and two people advance. I will always attack into the weakest player if I think the third will easily be able to eliminate them (we both advance). This is good tournament strategy and should not be counted as a lose.

If tournament games are going to count towards ranking, then as a hybrid of what was stated here should be used. Games count if only one person advances each round or if wins are all that  counts in the tournament (such as swiss or round robin). Tournaments for which two or more advance should be treated as team games and not counted as advancement to the next round should be counted as being successful.

Tom,

Lord OF War tournament is set to regular turn limit but yet is 5 day.
Turn Speed: Regular (5 day turn limit)

shouldnt that be 2 day turn limit? Since Regular is 2 days?

Major problem:

In the GearWars tournament, my first opponent never joined the game. He joined WG, joined the tournament, and has not logged on since. I joined the game and waited for him... lo and behold today it turns out I was booted from the game, not him. How does that happen? Could you please fix this? Thanks!

edit:

Link to tourney: http://www.wargear.net/tournaments/view/11

Link to game: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/16320

Sorry Vataro I had to make an update to the boot code to fix a problem with tournament boots - this is fixed now.

Slimer - those players have been booted also.

I also set it so only players with a profile pic can join a tournament.

Slimer wrote: Tom,

Lord OF War tournament is set to regular turn limit but yet is 5 day.
Turn Speed: Regular (5 day turn limit)

shouldnt that be 2 day turn limit? Since Regular is 2 days?

Thanks Slimer - fixed.

Thanks! Nice new avatar btw.

So, about the 2nd place discussion...

Tournament ranking goes down for 2nd place, because it's a loss. If you get second place a couple times, then won't your tournament ranking score be reduced below someone who only got 1 loss and was eliminated in the first round? Is this working as intended? =/

Yay, Risky and Alpha pretty much said what I was going to say. I more than likely wouldn't join tournaments where I have Championship Points (especially if already at the 20 range), just like I don't join Ranked games on those boards that I have 20 CPs which is just like how many players didn't join Ranked games on WF when they hit 10 medals. It's just smart to not possibly lose your CPs when you have them. There could be theoretical gains to combining them, I just don't think I'm a fan of it.
A "casual" setting may fulfill both, but that just seems like another setting.