A few of you out there have observed (as of this writing) that I have upwards of 300 boots.  As a result, some of you have even decided to stop playing against me.

Well, here's why:  It's not because I'm a poor sport that just wants to take his ball and go home.  It's because I don't want to get double- or even triple-penalized for surrendering.

Here's a recent example: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/90401

After my opponent surrendered, I received this email:

Congratulations, you've won the game href='http://www.wargear.net/games/view/90401'>gtw

This game
took 44 minutes 35 seconds to finish and you took 3 turns.

You eliminated
1 player.

Global Ranking Score Change
href='http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Jah Warren'>Jah Warren:
1360/1561 x20 = 17
New score = 1561 + 17 = 1578

You are ranked #93 in
the Global Rankings.

Board Ranking Score Change
href='http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Jah Warren'>Jah Warren:
1007/1752 x20 = 11
New score = 1752 + 11 = 1763

You are ranked #2 on
this board.
You have 15 championship points on this board.
You have a
total of 16 championship points overall.

You are ranked #93 in the Board
Championship.

A few moments later, I received this email:

Congratulations, you've won the game href='http://www.wargear.net/games/view/90401'>gtw

This game
took 44 minutes 44 seconds to finish and you took 3 turns.

You eliminated
1 player.

Global Ranking Score Change
href='http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Jah Warren'>Jah Warren:
1343/1578 x20 = 17
New score = 1578 + 17 = 1595

You are ranked #89 in
the Global Rankings.

Board Ranking Score Change
href='http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Jah Warren'>Jah Warren:
996/1763 x20 = 11
New score = 1763 + 11 = 1774

You are ranked #2 on
this board.
You have 15 championship points on this board.
You have a
total of 16 championship points overall.

You are ranked #93 in the Board
Championship.

A few moments after that, I received this email:

Congratulations, you've won the game href='http://www.wargear.net/games/view/90401'>gtw

This game
took 45 minutes 11 seconds to finish and you took 3 turns.

You eliminated
1 player.

Global Ranking Score Change
href='http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Jah Warren'>Jah Warren:
1326/1595 x20 = 16
New score = 1595 + 16 = 1611

You are ranked #84 in
the Global Rankings.

Board Ranking Score Change
href='http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Jah Warren'>Jah Warren:
985/1774 x20 = 11
New score = 1774 + 11 = 1785

You are ranked #2 on
this board.
You have 15 championship points on this board.
You have a
total of 16 championship points overall.

You are ranked #93 in the Board
Championship.

Look carefully.  Those are not three duplicate emails.  They are three unique emails indicating that I had won the same game three times, and shows new calculations and new rating points awarded three times.  I haven't checked, but I have little doubt that those extra points were also subtracted from my opponents record.

Now, this doesn't happen every time someone surrenders, but it happens often enough that I don't dare surrender myself.  I have reported this issue to Tom more than once already.  I'm sure he's working on it.  But, until it is fixed, I will take a boot rather than surrender.

So, I just wanted to clear the air about why I don't surrender.  And why, if you value your standing, you should never surrender, either.

This is a good heads up csecu.

I think you handled it well by informing Tom.  The fact he hasn't gotten to it after repeated requests is, IMO, a symptom of the way the site currently handles Bug Help requests. (i.e. by posting on the forum thread).

In this forum thread as post #1: http://www.wargear.net/forum/showthread/1443p1/Enhancement_Requests

there is a Google Doc with a list of all feature requests and on the second page is a sheet of Bugs and their status.  There are definitely more than 20 bugs out there, and I believe the remainder are right now being handled via the forum thread titled "BUGS BUGS."

My suggestion is that the Google Doc be used (again) to handle bug support requests so that anybody who has submitted a bug can instantly see what the status and priority of the issue.

It doesn't matter to me how entries are made into the Google Doc (directly input by submitter, input by tom, etc.) but it seems there does need to be a better system for handling these issues.

~ATH

If you look at your Ranking History, however, it does not look like that's what is actually happening though.  Maybe you're getting multiple e-mails, but only the last of the 3 e-mails seems to have been applied to your global ranking.

Your ranking before the game was 1561, and the 3rd e-mail said you should have gained 16 points, and Jaw Warren should have lost 16.
If you look at yours and Jah's ranking, that's what did actually happen.

06-Sep-2011	11:01	gtw	Antastic!	2	Loss	28	1561
06-Sep-2011	05:28	gtw	Antastic!	2	Win	12	1589
06-Sep-2011	03:38	gtw	Antastic!	2	Win	16	1577
06-Sep-2011	02:01	gtw	Antastic!	2	Loss	15	1561
05-Sep-2011	21:47	7	Europe 1560	7	Loss	16	1576

I was going to say Thanks Csecu before I actually read Boris' post...

I didn't check it properly either, and I decided to stop receiving emails for every single game I am playing over here, but I noticed that I have been losing many points lately, and as a matter of fact it matches with my "new" habit of surrendering when a game is over...

So... me too I will stop surrendering before I am actually sure that I am not losing extra points :) Don't worry guys, I usually play fast enough during flash games, you 'd have time to erase me from the board...

PEACE

i don't want to think about 7 day turns where csecu play and decide to be booted... 

it's so frustrating to play with csecu, when you must wait and watch will he come back or not.  and he(she) wondering how people avoid him(her?).. at least you can finish your turn when you know you will be eliminated next turn, surrendering is not only option. 

I was wondering the same thing. Why not simply finish the game?

Who hasn't taken 'garbage' turns?  I've even attacked neuts in order to allow an enemy easier access to me so he can finish me off faster......

In response to the last three replies, especially on large maps and/or many-player games, the difference in turns between realizing you have no chance at winning, and actually playing it out to a final resolution, could easily be in the double digits. 

Why subject oneself to that prolonged torture?  By just abandoning the game it's over in two rounds.  If it's a lightning game, that's 20 minutes, versus the much longer period of time it would take to play it out.  What's more, the opponent doesn't even have to play, either.  Once I've timed out the first round, they can forget the game, time out themself, and then I boot.  Automatic, effortless win for my opponent.  Falling off a log would be more difficult.

But still, people have to bitch about something, I guess...

i disagree with the way you described 'helping' on the lightning game.

even if one gave the curtesy of messaging that they are abandoning the game and thus allowing things to time out. I would still have to sit there for 20 mins. to make sure someone isn't reneging. not saying you would in particular, but to cover my ass you bet i would sit there. i'd have to sit there ten minutes before i noticed that they got skipped. IF i left at that point, they could take their turn in ten min and i'd not know. instead i take my turn and sit another ten minutes to make sure it happened.

all this as opposed to you sitting there for 5 minutes and ending your turn as it comes to you.

He deliberately leaves the game as soon as it happens some kind of "unexpected" loss, he leaves the game without saying a word ... So I guess it is easier for him to handle with defeat when he has on mind that the fool who plays will have to wait 20 minutes.

There is a bug here but I'm not sure what is causing it - it doesn't happen all the time and it doesn't affect all players.

Rest assured also the stats are regularly reindexed (at least once a week) so any points that are lost / gained will be correctly reallocated. In other words it's pointless not to surrender.

tom wrote:

In other words it's pointless not to surrender.

 

Well, almost...

Yertle wrote:

tom wrote:

In other words it's pointless not to surrender.

 

Well, almost...

???

Player A doesn't get an elimination if Player B surrenders...at least I assume.

Yertle wrote:

Player A doesn't get an elimination if Player B surrenders...at least I assume.

It's not the case any more, which is a good thing.

Correct - if it's down to two players then Player A gets given an elimination.

Then just the potential lack of a timely victory dance!  Thanks!

Depending on the player:  I'd consider surrendering a game I was winning in trade for a youtube video of said nerd victory dance.

tom wrote:

There is a bug here but I'm not sure what is causing it - it doesn't happen all the time and it doesn't affect all players.

Rest assured also the stats are regularly reindexed (at least once a week) so any points that are lost / gained will be correctly reallocated. In other words it's pointless not to surrender.

 

My guess is that it happens a lot with Antastic games. Csecu and me play a lot of them and it happened to me several times in the past, and today :

6th Oct 2011 @ 12:48 .:. You lost the game '1v1 - Total Fog - Round Robin
[R8G6]'

You lost the game '1v1 - Total
Fog - Round Robin [R8G6]'.

This game took 17
days 7 hours 26 minutes 17 seconds to finish and you took 13 turns.

This
was a tournament game.

Your win record for this tournament is 7 / 8
(87.5%).

Your tournament score is 12624.

Your new global Public
tournament game ranking score is 2326.

Followed by :

6th Oct 2011 @ 12:50 .:. You lost the game '1v1 - Total Fog - Round Robin
[R8G6]'

You lost the game '1v1 - Total
Fog - Round Robin [R8G6]'.

This game took 17
days 7 hours 28 minutes 6 seconds to finish and you took 13 turns.

This
was a tournament game.

Your win record for this tournament is 7 / 8
(87.5%).

Your tournament score is 12624.

Your new global Public
tournament game ranking score is 2305.

csecu wrote:

In response to the last three replies, especially on large maps and/or many-player games, the difference in turns between realizing you have no chance at winning, and actually playing it out to a final resolution, could easily be in the double digits. 

Why subject oneself to that prolonged torture?  By just abandoning the game it's over in two rounds.  If it's a lightning game, that's 20 minutes, versus the much longer period of time it would take to play it out.  What's more, the opponent doesn't even have to play, either.  Once I've timed out the first round, they can forget the game, time out themself, and then I boot.  Automatic, effortless win for my opponent.  Falling off a log would be more difficult.

But still, people have to bitch about something, I guess...

Well, maybe I can understand your explanation for lightning games, but what about regular games?

Take this game, for example: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/91270

Why do I have to wait 4 days for you to get booted? Why do you have to call me 'moron' when I have been playing the game fairly?

Despite all your nice explanations, you are just a sore loser and you have no respect for your opponents. There is no good excuse for not finishing off a game. There is no good excuse for insulting an opponent. If you don't want to surrender (what I can understand), then just place your units on a random territory and finish your turn. It will take less time than writing your insults or whining about your bad luck, like you so often do.

And if you can't stand losing, don't play the game.