RiskyBack wrote: I still don't understand but I give so as not to turn this into a 14 page discussion about nothing.

Say you have 5 Players - A, B, C, D, E.  Players A has a turn time of 3 hours, players B and C have a turn time of 5 hours, and players D and E have a turn time of 10 hours. 

Currently if player A creates a game then all 4 others have the option of joining, thus a decent chance of filling the game.  If player A had the ability to start a game with under 5 hour players then there is now only 2 other players that can join the game, thus less of a chance of filling the game since the community has been split and D/E cannot join the game.

But look, everyone* can find players with huge avg turn times and mark them all as enemies.
Just give us a better interface to do that :)


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*with premium membership, which I don't have...

Enemies that are Premium can still join your games.

i actually kind of like that behind-the-curtain filter, but my main point of jumping in here is to say that even if we were to have some sort of turn timer (isn't it already in the profile?) you don't have to have seperate queues. couldn't something be done that you could just have it as an option in the selectable sort? show all games that were created for non-lightning speedy types with low turn time or an option in the create game to say sheet-lightning games that only quick players can get into, and i'm just rambling and writing which don't make a good combination so i'm going to shut up now so that i don't overwhelm (or underwhelm...) y'all with brilliant ideas that make no sense, that are non-sensical as they've already been shot down which i think that last piece already had but i'm too lazy to go back and look for sure...

Yertle wrote: Enemies that are Premium can still join your games.

I guess that usually premium members try to take their turns quickly.

I like what weathertop is going for here. I don't think this would help matters at all, but what if there was a way to see the total average turn time for players in a game without having to click on all the profiles? This would not solve my problems but it would be cool.

New topic:
Our current global ranking system is good, but it is really a ranking of how well you have done in your recent games. I think it would nice to have another column in the global ranking table that is the average of your global ranking over a time period (maybe the last year). Clearly this requires storing some additional data, but seems like it might be reasonable?

BD

A while ago, I suggested a "Billboard" style movement in the rankings arrowy thingy in a column that I think Tom liked, but might not have gotten around to yet.

Simulgear games should not count towards your average turn time.  A short turn time is considered positive in normal games, but in Simulgear games long turn time is not only acceptable but often necessary for quality play.

BlackDog wrote:

Simulgear games should not count towards your average turn time.  A short turn time is considered positive in normal games, but in Simulgear games long turn time is not only acceptable but often necessary for quality play.

For non-Team games it would be considered positive to have short turn times even in SimulGear games and not really reflective of quality play IMO.  I have wondered if a player takes back to back turns in a SimulGear game if the second turn is very small or if tom has put something in to account for that (WF had some funky logic for that).

That said, unless there is a change Turn Time plays a factor other than just a player stat, I don't pay attention to it very much at all and don't see a big deal as to how it's calculated.

Ah, so team games do not count towards your turn timer?  That is good, if I had thought things through a bit further I would have realized that it was the team aspect and not the simulgear aspect that was important.

BlackDog wrote:

Ah, so team games do not count towards your turn timer?  That is good, if I had thought things through a bit further I would have realized that it was the team aspect and not the simulgear aspect that was important.

I'm not saying that.  I assume team games do count towards your turn timer. 

I'm just saying that SimulGear games should probably count towards your turn timer. 

Your example of Team SimulGear games does mean that those games may alter your Turn Timer, but really if it's a simple Turn Timer stat then really Team SimulGear games should probably be counted too...I would think.

They all count towards your timer in the same way. There shouldn't be that same bug from ToS over here relating to BAO turns.

tom wrote:

There shouldn't be that same bug from ToS over here relating to BAO turns.

If it matters this was the logic from WF  (feel free to quit reading here if you don't care :)):

The Panda wrote:

I'm sure this explanation is going to cause a bit of controversy... but here it is.

The system used to award you a quick turntime for the second back to back BAO play turn... and this was great for reducing the average turn times... but didn't really represent what "average turntime" was meant to display.. which is "how long do other players wait for you?"... or practically speaking "how long from the time you get a your-turn email until you take your turn".

So it was changed at some point to count a back to back turn as a single "turn"... in order to be in line with "how long are other people waiting for you". Besides generally speaking site the average turntime of the second of the back to back play turns is probably around <5mins .. order of magnitude different than the average turntime for the first half and shouldn't be averaged in.

Example of turntime calculated in both methods... assuming a fairly quick player who responds to the "your turn" emails in 2 hours and like in Mr.Liu's example above is always the last player in taking BAO turns so is always getting back to back turns.

[Method1] back to back counted as 2 turns.
2hrs (average response time to get to WF) to take first half of turn
1min (time to take second BAOturn).
2hrs (average response time to get to WF) to take first half of turn
1min (time to take second BAOturn).
2hrs (average response time to get to WF) to take first half of turn
1min (time to take second BAOturn).

Average turntime = 2hrs + 1min + 2hrs + 1min + 2hrs + 1min divided by 6 = 1hr and 30 seconds.

[Method2] back to back counted as 1 turn
2hrs1min (average response time to get to WF) to take both turns
2hrs1min (average response time to get to WF) to take both turns
2hrs1min (average response time to get to WF) to take both turns

Average turntime = 3hrs/3mins divided by 3 = 2hrs1min.

As you can see using method #1 we're reporting 1 hour.. when I believe that 2 hours is more accurate... another way to look at this is if you compare a player who only plays BAO vs a player who only plays turn-based... if method #1 is used you'll see that that even though each player has an 2 hour delay before they check their email... BAO player will end up with a "average turntime" of half.

"Average turntime" could be renamed to "average turn response time" to make it more clear.

Not sure I necessarily agree with what he said, but it's a potential way of thinking about it.

Interesting - not sure I necessarily agree either. TBH I don't think it's that important, once you've played a few games your turn average settles down and won't change much.

I think team games should not count towards your normal turn timer.  There could be a seperate timer for team games I guess.

Seems like just attempting to make Turn Timer more than just the amount of time it takes for you to take your turn. That's one thing that seems like it could stay simple :).

That would be ok, except that many people consider turn time an important statistic.  When players consider who to play with in non-team games, turn timer is a useful measurement of how active/dedicated other players are.  The same is definetely not true for team games (and to a certain extent the opposite is true).

I don't think it is unreasonable to say that some players may even be discouraged from playing team games because of the effect on their overall turn timer... and this should not be the case.  Having a single turn timer is too simple.

If the turn timer is a useful statistic, then I think we need to calculate/display it in such a way that it retains its relevance.  If it is not a useful statistic, then we should not display it at all.

Should there then be a turn timer for each type of Game Speed?  Real Time/Quick/Default/Extended

I wouldn't think so, the fact that the game forces you to take your turn in a given amount of time is merely an artificial incentive to take your turn quickly.  The resulting turn time can be interpreted similarly between all those settings... i.e. a two player game where the players take their turns ever 20 minutes is identical whether or not it is set as a lightning game.