What is the point of the Surrender button?   The Surrenders tally is right up there next to Boots, implying surrendering is frowned upon. Yet, there is a surrender button on each game page. Shouldn't we be seeing more surrendering, saving the the lives of millions of virtual civilian men, woman and children?  What has happened to civility, honor, respect, ..dignity?

Quick note.. Yes, I see that with more than two people remaining it should be considered unsportsmanlike to surrender. Cards can't be captured and other inequities occur, but what about after the game whittles the players down to two? If surrenders are bad things, then should surrenders in two player situations count?

I don't think surrenders are counted negatively in any way on this site; it is kept as a statistic, among other neutral stats. I usually assume someone won't see my surrender, so I play it out, but I admit I should use the button more.

When the game has two players (or two players left) the surrender should not depend on the other player. You should be able to simply click the surrender button and have the game end.

Does it count in the Boots/Surrender tally?  If so, I wonder that they should be separate cells.  There is the implication that surrendering is unsportsmanlike.

It can be unsportsmanlike if the player joins the game and surrenders early with many players still left who made their moves on the existence of that player. This is not as common as boots, but I've seen someone join and quit because they didn't like the board.

I understand ..but surrenders in a game that is down to 2 players shouldn't count.

I agree that it is appears as a negative stat with Boots/Surrenders appearing in the same box. I think it was tom (Kobra Kai) who brought up how people should be able to surrender in games like Project Resistance - and in that context it wasn't two player surrenders that were desired. Really, multiplayer surrenders made sense once it reached a certain point.

Anyway, to me, if we're tracking that stat (no need to, but if we are), then a two player surrender is just as much a surrender as any other. The server won't be able to distinguish between lame surrenders and honorable ones. I disagree that two player surrenders are always honorable - I've had the same quitter attitude happen in duels where the opposition didn't understand the board or care to after a turn passed. Just as rare.

Maybe, just throwing this out there, they are in the same spot because you can click on the boots/surrenders and investigate the games to see if it's that kind of lame player you don't want in your games.

I like eliminations :). Can't get an elimination if the other person surrenders, so surrenders when only 2 players are left shouldn't be automatic IMO.
Now...start getting into then should that just count as an elimination blah blah blah gets complicated and unnecessary, so I say leave as is :D

Yertle wrote: I like eliminations :). Can't get an elimination if the other person surrenders, so surrenders when only 2 players are left shouldn't be automatic IMO.
Now...start getting into then should that just count as an elimination blah blah blah gets complicated and unnecessary, so I say leave as is :D

But then why have a surrender button in the first place?  I guess I'm uncomfortable surrendering when I know that my surrender count is going to be placed along side my boot count.

why not have a tally of how many people have surrendered to you, instead of a surrender going against the flag waver. or both.

If you really wanted to you could have a Prisoner Of War list on your stats page. So if you surrender to a person your name automatically is placed on their POW list. then the only way to get your name off a POW list is to win a game against the person you surrendered to.

Now...start getting into then should that just count as an elimination blah blah blah gets complicated and unnecessary, so I say leave as is :D

This would really not be complicated.  If there are more than two people, require the others to accept a surrender.  If there are only two people, have a surrender end the game as an elimination.

Makes sense.  But my question still stands. Why have the stat?  What is its value? Is it a positive or a negative?  If negative, why have a surrender button in the first place? Might as well have a "sore loser" button.  If positive (i.e., counts as an elimination in a two player game), it's value is marginal and the stat certainly shouldn't be displayed along side of "boots". If neither positive or negative, then it has no value.

If using the system I said above, it would basically be neutral, and I wouldn't display it at all. If there are only two players left, there is clearly nothing bad about surrendering. If there are more than 2 players there could still be situations (especially in non-traditional maps) where it would be acceptable for a player to surrender. If this is not the case, then the other players just refuse to accept the surrender, then the player must play the game out or go inactive and get the boot.

BlackDog wrote:

Now...start getting into then should that just count as an elimination blah blah blah gets complicated and unnecessary, so I say leave as is :D

This would really not be complicated.  If there are more than two people, require the others to accept a surrender.  If there are only two people, have a surrender end the game as an elimination.

Hugh wrote:

I think it was tom (Kobra Kai) who brought up how people should be able to surrender in games like Project Resistance - and in that context it wasn't two player surrenders that were desired. Really, multiplayer surrenders made sense once it reached a certain point.

M57 wrote:

Makes sense.  But my question still stands. Why have the stat?  What is its value? Is it a positive or a negative?  If negative, why have a surrender button in the first place? Might as well have a "sore loser" button.  If positive (i.e., counts as an elimination in a two player game), it's value is marginal and the stat certainly shouldn't be displayed along side of "boots". If neither positive or negative, then it has no value.

Whether it is positive or negative depends on the situation.  It is more than a stat - you can click on that part of a user's profile and it will list the games in which the boot or surrender occurs - if curious, you could find out whether they surrendered honorably or not.  By having both stats in the same spot,  two kinds of potentially negative behaviors are pl aced in the same spot.  We haven't seen this kind of abuse yet, but if stat padding is going on between colluding accounts, the feature to click on the surrendered games would make that form of collusion easy to spot.

As far as "sore loser" button and people perceiving it negatively goes - that's just paranoia.  Experienced players understand honorable surrenders, the site's administrator does too, and if someone doesn't understand it, do we care about their uninformed opinion?