So, in a board review of EN's Pokemon map (which I think we've decided to fail, but that's another story), I encountered what may or may not be a bug but is certainly a problem. I killed all of brown's units, but his last territory was in Charmander... and I eliminated the units with the attack-only border from Pikachu, and had no units in the pokeball to take out his territory, so I couldn't eliminate him. However, when I ended my turn he had 0 units in that territory so it turned neutral... but he was not eliminated, and I did not get his cards or any elimination bonus (if there is any). His turn came around and he couldn't do anything, but still had to actually start and end his turn.

Game link: http://www.wargear.net/games/player/12664

Ah. Yes I was aware that this might be a problem but didn't realize there was a board that had the correct rule conditions to encounter it.

I'm not 100% sure what the correct behavior should be - it could be either

a) when the player's units revert to neutral they are eliminated and you win by default

b) the player's last territory doesn't revert to neutral so you are forced to eliminate them properly

I think probably (a) is the best...

not sure, i can see both sides. tho they both have issues, tho if it's a revert to neutral instead of maintain, then i think a) probably comes out slightly better

tom wrote:

a) when the player's units revert to neutral they are eliminated and you win by default

You mean the player is eliminated when they get to 0 units?  So it's as if you eliminated him?  Or does it go down as an elimination only at the end of the round and you get the cards/bonus for your next round?

I think it should be as Yertle says. If they run out of units they are eliminated then and there. If that can be easily coded...

I've done that lots of times in Duck Hunt without any problems unless I am misunderstanding the issue

RiskyBack wrote: I've done that lots of times in Duck Hunt without any problems unless I am misunderstanding the issue

I think that works fine since Revert to Neutral is Immediate instead of at the end of Turn.

I imagine you could currently eliminate yourself in the scenario described by Vataro couldn't you?

Yertle wrote:

tom wrote:

a) when the player's units revert to neutral they are eliminated and you win by default

You mean the player is eliminated when they get to 0 units?  So it's as if you eliminated him?  Or does it go down as an elimination only at the end of the round and you get the cards/bonus for your next round?

No, I'd say they are eliminated only at the end of the turn. i.e. the cards + any bonus units are lost.

I don't think you can eliminate yourself though?

I think the player who finishes off his units should get the bonuses for doing so... or would you prefer to say that they should plan better so as to be able to eliminate them without the use of an artillery border? I guess that could work, although I'm not sure I like it as much ;).

I reckon they should plan it better :)

but if its a fogged board like i'm assuming the one that started this whole topic, you wouldn't be able to know that.

Yes - that's a good thing I'd say... adds more uncertainty to the situation - did I eliminate them or did they get eliminated by someone else or did they just die off in the night :)

Yea, you can't really plan eliminations in the fog anyway, so it's up to you to take the risk at going for more territories in hopes that someone doesn't have the defenses.

I think I agree with tom's line of thinking on this. Elimination occurs when you destroy all territories/units, not just units. This is kind of a "forced elimination" in that they will be eliminated, but still kind of different in that you aren't the one doing the Fatality.

I've updated the game engine to fix this bug. As per discussion in this instance the player would be eliminated at the end of the turn but it is treated as a neutral elimination - i.e. cards / bonus units are lost.

Sorry about causing this issue tom. I'll try to make normal maps from now on.

Nah.......I doubt that'll happen

RiskyBack wrote: Sorry about causing this issue tom. I'll try to make normal maps from now on.

Nah.......I doubt that'll happen

This was EN's bug, but between you two, he's definitely getting his code checked good! :D

In the case of an artillery border taking out a player's final unit, and the territory turning neutral, only at the end of the turn, the player should be eliminated immediately by the player who killed the last unit, and elimination bonuses should be awarded to that player, and they should be able to continue their turn. Either way, immediately or at end of turn, I think the player should be awarded the bonus, he is still responsible for the elimination. If the capital city is reachable by an artillery border, I think that it's safe to assume that the intentions are that that may destroy the capital, therefore eliminating the player, I see no reason why the the successful player wouldn't be awarded, either immediately by sending a scout, or at the end of the battle (turn) when they see that the city has fallen and loot the place.

We thrashed this out on another thread - my opinion was that in the situation you described the player should be eliminated at the end of the turn and their cards plus reserve units are lost. If they are the last player then at the end of the turn the last remaining player wins. This means players have to ensure they can take the last remaining units via a standard non-artillery attack which forces additional planning / execution.

I think it also adds to the fun in foggy games - did I eliminate that player or did someone else get his final unit?

Yes, and I found this decision to be reasonable.