http://www.wargear.net/games/view/700902

On Feb 29, turn #1530, I captured Spectacled Bear Country, but did not get the 3 pt bonus.  Before my next turn, I lost it, but it is troubling that the board is not functioning right.  I think the problem is with  Sloth Bear #9 and #10.

Earlier in the game, I noticed that Frown was getting the 3 pt bonus for Sloth Bear Country, when he did not have all the territories, namely #9 and #10.  This happened for 2 turns, but did not involve me, so I left it for the affected players to report.  I don't believe anyone did and now it is my problem.

The turns where this happened are Frown's turn #810 on 2/8 and #925 on 2/11.  Each time he received a bonus of 10, instead of 7.

In my situation, I don't know what territory I need to win back to get the Spectacled Bear Country bonus, but I suspect it would be Spectacled Bear #1 and Sloth Bear #10 or #9 or both.

If you could please fix this problem, I would appreciate it!

Thanks,

Momzilla

Momzilla, I looked at your game and it is apparent to me that Sloth Bear 9 and 10 are both part of the Spectacled Bear bonus area, not the Sloth Bear bonus area. This is undoubtedly a small design flaw. Tom is not the man to change that, better to ask the board designer. I've seen similar small changes to boards many times, each time done by the board designer.

Thanks for taking a look at the problem, Litotes.  I sent a PM to the board designer, named blackJack, but I don't have much confidence that he will be able to help me.  His last visit to Wargear was in 2016.

Also, can the board designer roll back the game to the turn where the problem first effected the bonus score?  That would be 2/3/20, if I'm remembering correctly.  Since then, Frown has been awarded the Sloth Bear bonus twice with only 8 territories, and attacks on Sloth Bear 9 and 10 have not succeeded in taking the bonus from him.

Meanwhile, I would have to take 12 territories to get the Spectacled Bear Country bonus, including Sloth Bear 9 and 10. Hardly fair.  And how would I ever know that?  

I am feeling petty and guilty about asking for the rollback, but I know that relatively small advantages and disadvantages early in a game can often lead to winning  or losing as time goes by.

I'll wait and see if I hear from blackJack.

Thanks again,

Momzilla

My memory didn't get all the data correct in my last message.  The rollback date would be 2/8/20, and my current requirement for the Spectacled bonus is 13 territories.

Anyway, I think a lot of the other players might not be happy with me holding up the game, especially because at this point I'm the weakest one on the board, but i guess I should pursue it for the sake of future players on this map.

Designers can not roll back games. Only tom can do that.  Designers can only change the designs of their boards.  More importantly,  the changes they make will only apply to games created after the changes are made and will not have any effect on games already started.

Thanks for the info M57.  I haven't heard from blackJack anyway, so I will PM Tom and see if he will fix this map and rollback the game.  I have received support for doing this from at least one other player in the game (who is currently doing well in this 6 person game), so I don't feel so guilty about it anymore. 

Tom isn't going to fix the map. best he might do is give one of us ability to edit another designer's maps. So don't know if rolling the game back will do you any good, unless it alters play from that previous point. 

Hi, Weathertop,

I'm a bit confused by your message.  Back on 3/5, Litotes told me he took a look at the Bear River map and saw that the problem was what I suspected, that 2 territories labeled Sloth Bear were instead functioning as Spectacled Bear.  He said it was a minor design flaw and could be handled by the board designer. 

However, the designer hasn't been on wargear since 2016.  I sent him (blackJack) a PM anyway, just in case, but have heard nothing from him.  

I don't care who fixes the problem, but it is unfair as it is.  Sloth Bear country earns the same 3 pt bonus as Spectacled Bear, but only requires 8 territories to Spectacled's 13. Most of the bonuses require 11, I believe.  Plus, the map is not labeled to make that fact known.

So, is Tom not going to answer my PM or did he ask you to answer me?  Should I PM him again and request that another designer be allowed to fix the problem, and hopefully rollback the game?

I think it is fair to fix the map and roll the game back to 2/8/20, where the effects of the glitch first occurred (in this game at least.)

I would settle for the game being fixed without the rollback, if that is too much trouble or something.  I could also just live with only the labelling on the map being changed, if that is easier, so people know what they're getting into when they go after those bonuses.  Or maybe make the Spectacled Bear Country bonus worth more and/or Sloth bear worth less, but the labels would still need to be changed.

Anyway, thanks for your help!

I'm sorry, I see my message didn't come through as intended. I meant that the designer could fix the board for future games. It is not customary to fix ongoing games this way. For your present game the designer can do nothing. For that game the two territories count for a different bonus area than originally intended. If everyone agrees Tom can move the game back  to the point where you discovered this, but he won't change the board, play would have to resume as is, but with the added knowledge about where the limits of the bonus areas are.

Litotes wrote:

If everyone agrees Tom can move the game back  to the point where you discovered this, but he won't change the board, play would have to resume as is, but with the added knowledge about where the limits of the bonus areas are.

Sorry for the confusion, (hopefully) 'totes clarified what I tried to claim as the best you can hope for (above). 

I'll add (for clarification):
- I'm not sure Tom has ever tweaked another designer's board for them. He has given one or two of us limited/temporary permissions to fix them for for a designer that retired. That may happen here, but don't know yet.

That said, I'm fairly confident there isn't even a way for an existing game to incorporate an update of this type were it to be corrected - maybe with a complete restart, but that may break the tourney. 

Ok, I don't see much point to having a rollback if nothing is going to change on the map of this particular game.  I will inform the other players that we will proceed with the glitch as is.

Meanwhile, I think every potential future player would appreciate the board being fixed for future games by assigning Sloth bear #9 and #10 to Sloth bear for the Sloth Bear Country bonus, as labeled, and not to Spectacled bear.  I really appreciate you all for taking the time to deal with this problem.  Would you please let me know the outcome for future games?

Thanks!  

Also, Weathertop, this game isn't part of a tourney.

Hi guys.  Just wondering if anyone  has volunteered to fix this map for future games and where Tom stands with it.  Should I send him a follow-up  query?

Thanks!

momzilla wrote:

Hi guys.  Just wondering if anyone  has volunteered to fix this map for future games and where Tom stands with it.  Should I send him a follow-up  query?

Thanks!

Yes.

Hello all - I have fixed the map.

It's possible the change will effect live games. 

Thanks so much, Amidon!  I haven't checked on the status of getting this board fixed for about a week now, so I was very pleasantly surprised to find out that you took care of it. I don't think the game we're currently playing was effected by the fix, but I'm just happy that future games will work right.

Thanks again very much!