I know most the old hands here seem to prefer flood fill maps, and in most instances I agree that they look nice.  But I really think it was a backward step to convert the Europe 1560 to flood fill.  The character of this backdrop of this map has been totally covered up by the flood fill. 

Should we bring the old one back? 

Really? A backwards step? I think it looks great! And it's become MUCH more popular.

A decision was made to lose circle mode for this site and so maps had to be converted. The gameplay didn't change. The borders and bonuses were put directly over the old ones. The only thing that changed was fill and the background because the image with fill and the old backdrop looked too busy and not very good.
Embrace the change. There will be lots of maps to play. I suggest if you want a circle map of Europe you play Midieaval Europe or if you miss circles, try a game of Count Risky Must Die....it's as close as you can get right now.
You can't stop evolution, you can only hope to contain it!

Hmm I erased this because I read it again and it didn't come off as funny at all, it just sounded asshole-ish.  I'm losing my touch I guess.

Lol I'm sorry I couldn't help myself.

No, seriously your maps rock. But also seriously, I would like to see the old 1560 map back. You know how you can grow comfortable with something? I LIKED the map the way it was, all that weird text crammed into it. It was different, and now the new one looks, well.. kinda boring. =[

RiskyBack wrote: A decision was made to lose circle mode for this site and so maps had to be converted. 

Good. Circle mode sucks for a ton of reasons. I love the look of the new version of 1560.

One could argue that a fill only design system might keep new people from trying their hand at design, but I think this can be offset by the AMAZING level of interaction the talented map makers are willing to have with the community.

Which brings me to my next point:

a HUGE thank you to all of the map makers out there. I have tried it, that ish is not easy. It is one thing to have a brilliant idea for a map, it is entirely another to be able to bring it to life in an enjoyable and visually pleasing manner. And don't get me started on the fine art of game play mechanics. You guys blow my mind on a regular basis. And not to exclude the many greats here and elsewhere, but Cram and Cumber - your fresh takes on game play keep me coming back for more.

DeadByDawn wrote:

RiskyBack wrote: A decision was made to lose circle mode for this site and so maps had to be converted. 

Good. Circle mode sucks for a ton of reasons.

As a budding map-maker wanting to understand as much as possible so I get it right the first time, what are the downsides to circle maps?  I can't think of any, except that some maps look better as fill, and some look better as circle.  (Always subjective of course). The only argument I have seen on this forum for getting rid of circle mode is that it makes it easier to produce a map.

For me, the upside of circle maps...I find the continents easier to see, the backdrop of the map is not obliterated, and in some cases I simply think it looks better.  I am a little perplexed at the polarised view that some people have on this issue.

I would say a lot of people like circle maps.  Look at the number of games of "global warfare" that are still created every day, when they could choose "war" (which I think is good also). 

I understand the decision was made to disallow circle maps going forward. I'm not happy with the decision but I've been repeatedly brushed off by people who apparently know better than I do.

I can't understand the decision to waste time and effort to go back and redo a map that's been on the site since the beginning and change it to fill mode. There is no upside to this. I missed the thread where a huge line of people were bitching and complaining about the look of the 1560 map and were demanding it be changed. The only reason to change it is ego. Someone has too damn big of an ego. Congratulations, your ego is satisfied and you managed to piss a few people off, me included.

I don't think you realize quite how upset I am about this either. Not mildly, not in a funny way. I am honestly pissed off. I want the old map back.

My problem with circle maps is that they seem to lead Map Designers to plop circles on a picture, whether they are new Map Designers or just lazy map designers. This doesn't create new maps it just creates pictures with circles on them. Going all fill mode (and thus changing the couple existing circle mode since I imagine they were relatively quick and fairly easy changes for Cram) means it does quickly quickly filter out a lot of junk maps that, in my mind, junk down the site rather than enhance it (which is somewhat what happened to the Warfish map list). Just my opinion.

Here's a great example IMO. Which is better (WF Plus member links)?

http://warfish.net/war/design/mapimg?bid=6833672

http://warfish.net/war/design/mapimg?bid=4165930


Not saying anything against either map designer (as one is brand new and the other has quite a few released maps), just the style is better and leads to better results in the end IMO.

Yertle wrote:  This doesn't create new maps it just creates pictures with circles on them.  Just my opinion.

Yertle, I appreciate that the above opinion is your honest feeling on this, but for me, and many others no doubt, (note the continued popularity of "global warfare") it is exactly the opposite.

The circle mode map had quite some character, but now I see it as just another big splash of fill colour across the screen.  The 1560 might as well be taken out of the name now that the map has been covered over.

Obviously this is a personal preference thing, and I am open enough to accept others have different preferences to me.  I just find it a pity that it all has to go one way.

Bad maps should be filtered out by the review process, not by a disabled building tool.

paulharrow wrote:

Bad maps should be filtered out by the review process, not by a disabled building tool.

I think that is kind of where it all started isn't it?  The expected problem was getting a lot of those pictures with circles in the Review and then telling them it's a bad map because it's a picture with circles, but then the next one comes along and it is a circle mode but an actual map and allowing it to go through, at some point it would become preference/egotistical/whatever anyways as to what type of circle mode is allowed and what type isn't.  So the conclusion reached was to disallow circle mode in the Review thereby keeping out the picture with circle mode but allowing the actual circle mode map to be slightly redone if using fill mode, even if it was something as simple as filled wingdings.

It is still possible to have a picture with fill mode but not really have a map, but I think those will be far fewer than picture with circles would have been.  I think those map designers that do actually implement fill mode will take more pride in the actual map/gameplay as well since they will, more than likely, have to spend more time on the graphics of the fill mode.

Yertle, everything you've posted here is irrelevant to the thread topic. It's not about circle mode going forward, it's about changing an existing map that didn't need changing.

So 3 questions:

1. Who changed it?
2. Why?
3. When is it going to be changed back?

IRoll11s wrote:

Yertle, everything you've posted here is irrelevant to the thread topic. It's not about circle mode going forward, it's about changing an existing map that didn't need changing.

So 3 questions:

1. Who changed it?
2. Why?
3. When is it going to be changed back?

Thread has diverged some, paul was talking about circle mode going forward, so I did too for a while.

As for your quesitons.  The 1560 map appears to be redrawn by Cramchakle (since it's released under his name now).  I imagine it was an easy fix for him and would make sense to update since there were only two circle mode maps available.  That was designers don't come back and say well that one is circle mode, let mine.

Why change it back now?  It appears some like it how it is now too, so couldn't the same be said for why change it back if it's not broken?

I really don't mind either way, I haven't played the map, I think I prefer the Fill Mode, but I don't have strong feelings either way.

Sorry guys this is totally my fault, I asked Cram to help me out and redraw Europe 1560 and Toaster to redraw Global Warfare using Fill mode. As we'd previously decided to go down the Fill mode only route for Live boards it seemed hypocritical to have two Circle mode boards on the Live page - i.e. we would be fielding 'why am I not allowed to have a Circle mode live board when there's already two Circle mode boards there already?' type questions.

re: the decision to disallow Circle mode boards, as Yertle says it is essentially just being used as a way to set the bar a little higher when it comes to submitting boards for review. After all it's not hard given a bit of thought and design skill to recreate a circle mode look if that's what you're really after. It just stops the 'plonk 10 circles on a google map image and submit' look that the other site encouraged. This in turns reduces the demands on the review team pushing back on poor designs. As far as I'm concerned this is working pretty well so far.

So anyway we're now in a situation with both Global Warfare and Europe 1560 where there are those who prefer the originals and those who prefer the fill mode versions. In retrospect given the current situation I should probably have left both as is so I apologise for that. I don't particularly want to kill off the fill mode versions as personally I think they look better, but I also don't want to force them on people. There's a technical solution which involves allowing multiple board skins but it would take time that I'd rather spend on other things.

The other option as per Global Warfare is to allow both versions to coexist...

It's a bullshit thing to complain about anyway. But if people are going to cry about it, might as well just change it back IMO. As far as I know, none of the people that like the better-looking one care all that much about it.

We can create a new Review board subcommittee made up of the people who've got their panties in a twist about losing the original Europe and put them in charge of explaining to a brand-new map designer or two per week why their new board doesn't work and why they can't have circle mode on a public game.

asm, with all due respect... fuck you.

If you don't have anything constructive to add just keep your fucking mouth shut.

While that's a fair comment and well said, I think one could say the same about your position. You're certainly due much more respect than I am (having added tons more value to the site than I ever have or will), but I frankly don't understand your complaint at all. It makes you mad, and it was a waste of someone else's time to redo the map? So?

Bullshit, I'm due no more respect than anyone else on the site.

I've been having a real life ongoing escalating argument with someone I care about (not that I don't care about all you virtual people, but I care about you in a virtual way).

I'm usually pretty good at keeping these things compartmentalized but this past week not so much. What you wrote was very close to something that was said to me just a few hours before I read it.

I apologize, you got dumped on in some sort of weird transfer of anger thing.

You're also right and I guess I don't really care as much as it seems about the map change, it was just an excuse to bitch and curse at someone else about something else. I do like the old map better but seriously.. wtf? Not as much as all that. Sorry asm.

No need to apologize, 11's, you can tell me to fuck off any time you like. Hope things work out better for you. Sorry I touched a nerve.