asm wrote:

Vataro wrote: Yes, that is a great idea. Then from there they would hopefully explore the site some more... but would there be a way to then introduce them to more unique maps down the road?

Yeah, because (as I understand it) this wouldn't supercede or remove anything that currently exists... just stick in a big flashing attention-grabber right when a new player sees the main page for the first time, to attract them to a 'classic' game. They could still access the open games and everything, this would just be a way to highlight the best way to ease into playing on WG (again, pardon me if I'm misunderstanding your idea BD).

A possible permutation between BD's idea, Vataro's fear, and the previous unwieldy (IMO) idea of rating boards on difficulty and subdividing the games list would be to designate a handful of boards as 'beginner-level" and make only games on those boards available for new players until they had completed some minimal number of games, say 10. So you'd have the three obvious ones (Global War, WarGear WarFare, and Cram's War), plus maybe France, Germany, Europe 1560, Maze, and Antastic. Something like that. The Risk boards, some other basic geography boards, plus a couple of the popular non-geo boards that still don't take any additional non-basic-Risk skill to master. Then once they've gotten their feet wet, give them complete access to any game.

Wait, none of my maps is on that list?

asm wrote:.

A possible permutation between BD's idea, Vataro's fear, and the previous unwieldy (IMO) idea of rating boards on difficulty and subdividing the games list would be to designate a handful of boards as 'beginner-level" and make only games on those boards available for new players until they had completed some minimal number of games, say 10. So you'd have the three obvious ones (Global War, WarGear WarFare, and Cram's War), plus maybe France, Germany, Europe 1560, Maze, and Antastic. Something like that. The Risk boards, some other basic geography boards, plus a couple of the popular non-geo boards that still don't take any additional non-basic-Risk skill to master. Then once they've gotten their feet wet, give them complete access to any game.

This is not a bad idea as long they could be "invited" to any games.  Ten is way too much IMO.  We've been through this before.  One or two is fine..  Heck, ten moves is fine. Some games take weeks. I would leave in a heartbeat if I knew about all the games I wasn't allowed to play because I was "uninitiated".  That would infuriate me..  What about some kind of special "instant" access to "by invitation only" members?

I'm trying to think of other noob options.  I really like the "EASY" button idea.  Was there ever talk of "unrated" games?  ..or how about "non-player ranked boards" that might be less competitive.  Some people may feel more comfortable playing non-ranked games or boards.

There are some sites that pretty much "force" you to watch/take a tutorial when you first log-in.. I could envision some kind of "test" that has you play a mock game.  ..or maybe only 5 or 6 moves of one.. In this game your options are limited and the player "critiques" your moves and/or suggests alternatives..   Regardless of you how you do, you always "Pass".

Even better  ..the "test" uses 2 or 3 different boards, and players take 2 or 3 turns on each board!  Maybe the players are prompted to accomplish a mission, like finish taking a continent.. Or take a player out for his cards.. etc.  This would accomplish a number of objectives for us.  There are all kinds of ways to structure tutorials..

asm wrote:

Vataro wrote: Yes, that is a great idea. Then from there they would hopefully explore the site some more... but would there be a way to then introduce them to more unique maps down the road?

Yeah, because (as I understand it) this wouldn't supercede or remove anything that currently exists... just stick in a big flashing attention-grabber right when a new player sees the main page for the first time, to attract them to a 'classic' game. They could still access the open games and everything, this would just be a way to highlight the best way to ease into playing on WG (again, pardon me if I'm misunderstanding your idea BD).

A possible permutation between BD's idea, Vataro's fear, and the previous unwieldy (IMO) idea of rating boards on difficulty and subdividing the games list would be to designate a handful of boards as 'beginner-level" and make only games on those boards available for new players until they had completed some minimal number of games, say 10. So you'd have the three obvious ones (Global War, WarGear WarFare, and Cram's War), plus maybe France, Germany, Europe 1560, Maze, and Antastic. Something like that. The Risk boards, some other basic geography boards, plus a couple of the popular non-geo boards that still don't take any additional non-basic-Risk skill to master. Then once they've gotten their feet wet, give them complete access to any game.

I still heavily support the 'beginner-level' idea and board listed seem like good candidates to me.

Okay M, quibble about the number of completed games. 5 instead of 10. Heck, 3. Whatever.

But all this other stuff... I think we should aim a little bit higher in terms of realistic ideas. People are already complaining that team scenario is taking too long, nobody knows what's going to end up happening with SMTNPlay... and you want Tom to program a multi-board, mission-oriented tutorial player from the ground up?

asm wrote: Okay M, quibble about the number of completed games. 5 instead of 10. Heck, 3. Whatever.

But all this other stuff... I think we should aim a little bit higher in terms of realistic ideas. People are already complaining that team scenario is taking too long, nobody knows what's going to end up happening with SMTNPlay... and you want Tom to program a multi-board, mission-oriented tutorial player from the ground up?

Toaster was going to do that :p

I'm still unsure if a Tutorial would generate much "return to WarGear" value.

Edward Nygma wrote:

Tesctassa II wrote: Wouldn't be just fine to create a group on FB or something like "Become fan of WarGear"?

(=




ps: also remember to add that the game is addictive!

There is a facebook group aleady!

When you do a search for wargear on facebook, only a warhammer page comes up...

RE: Getting new people to stay, and finding good games for new players to join.

Do you guys remember when you'd start a new game and you saw a msg like this: "A new player would like to join warfish, could you let them into your game"?

Whenever I did it, I'd always welcome them, give them tips, especially if a non standard board, like bomb factory... always tell them to send 3 down 4 or 4 down 3 and explain why. If they send them all down one, of course that is bad.

Anyhow, this helped in 2 ways. First, they could see the potential of the neat boards and features. Warn them of the capitals feature.
But secondly and far more importanty, it created a personal, social connection. As pointed out, there are 1000s of flash games out there... against the cpu. They can be fast, strategic and you get to play when you want. No worries about turns. The social aspect is the biggest thing wargear has to offer.

So how about a section for "new players" in the games. People could make games for new players... have a cap of 33% of players over 50 games played allowed in it. So there is some veteran presence, but every 2 of 3 players is guaranteed to be newish. The good veterans can help guide the players, or just show off skills for others to emulate!
The cap idea is to stop sucky veterans from drooling over "easy" championship points and allow the new players to have a better chance of being a winner.

Other idea is for a marker of experience. Under 10 games, get a green outline on your profile pic. Then blue or whatever for 11-50 games played. This way we can also quickly identify new players, and be extra welcoming and supportive.

last thought... to keep things nice, how about the next time a player starts a flame war on profiles by calling someone a "tosser", and then whines when someone calls them a "wanker", they get banned for life for being a stupid hypocrite. Or for calling for a truce, continuing abuse elsewhere, and then when they get tired of looking foolish, they got upstairs to get a truce enforced. That would make things nicer around here too.

But more on topic, I think the above ideas could help the "core" who care about the success of the site have tools to identify who could use some more support, connection and emotional/mental investment that will keep them here. I remember when I found out so late about this site and how many had moved & I had no idea, I was dismayed. Because it was about the classy people I met, and less about the games/features themselves.

I also advertise wargear in my little box under the side, and occasionally as my status. I just went and did it on my 2nd gaming account... you know the one that you start for those bad games... thanks Risky!! Many, many hours lost... but it was fun too... again, for the social part mostly.

Yertle wrote:

asm wrote: Okay M, quibble about the number of completed games. 5 instead of 10. Heck, 3. Whatever.

But all this other stuff... I think we should aim a little bit higher in terms of realistic ideas. People are already complaining that team scenario is taking too long, nobody knows what's going to end up happening with SMTNPlay... and you want Tom to program a multi-board, mission-oriented tutorial player from the ground up?

Toaster was going to do that :p

I'm still unsure if a Tutorial would generate much "return to WarGear" value.

Any time I visit a site which forces me to sit through anything before I get to the business end is a site whose bounce count just increased by one. I won't even sit through a beautifully designed flash intro. Seriously, I don't have time for that nonsense.

Gimli wrote: last thought... to keep things nice, how about the next time a player starts a flame war on profiles by calling someone a "tosser", and then whines when someone calls them a "wanker", they get banned for life for being a stupid hypocrite. Or for calling for a truce, continuing abuse elsewhere, and then when they get tired of looking foolish, they got upstairs to get a truce enforced. That would make things nicer around here too.

Jebus man, let it die. Before you get banned for life for being a stupid hypocrite for passive-aggressively continuing the abuse elsewhere (here) while pretending it's a vague-and-unrelated-to-some-ongoing-feud example about bad behavior.

I love you, Dwarf, really; but this is silly. Also, take your spanking and go back to your desk quietly. This thread doesn't need to be further hijacked.

Cramchakle wrote:

Gimli wrote: last thought... to keep things nice, how about the next time a player starts a flame war on profiles by calling someone a "tosser", and then whines when someone calls them a "wanker", they get banned for life for being a stupid hypocrite. Or for calling for a truce, continuing abuse elsewhere, and then when they get tired of looking foolish, they got upstairs to get a truce enforced. That would make things nicer around here too.

Jebus man, let it die. Before you get banned for life for being a stupid hypocrite for passive-aggressively continuing the abuse elsewhere (here) while pretending it's a vague-and-unrelated-to-some-ongoing-feud example about bad behavior.

I love you, Dwarf, really; but this is silly. Also, take your spanking and go back to your desk quietly. This thread doesn't need to be further hijacked.

At least not until after I add my +1 to this.

Cram, I love you man, but settle down. It was just an off the top of my head thought.  You don't suffer fools, you've made that abundantly clear. But for many (if not most) a tutorial is anything but a waste of time.  Perhaps it could be optional.  Play bridge?  No? Try joining a game (even with beginners) without taking a couple lessons and see how they respond to your presence.

In doing a little side research on my M-Engine idea.. I just joined Conquer Club the other day, joined a game that had what looks like  experienced players and introduced myself as a noob.  I don't really understand the phases of turn movement (it's a "freestyle" game), but somehow I'm doing OK. The map is "Greater China".There are relatively complicated borders on the map that are defined visually but nowhere else, and a few artillery borders that are defined in the legend, but not on the board.  In short, it's a noob booby trap. 

If I was your average player looking for a game like Risk, I'm pretty sure my experience at CC would be a turn-off. Some sort of an easier way in is called for there.. and here IMO.

I believe Cram was referring to an intro video before starting to play a game or did I misunderstand? If I understood correctly, I am also against a forced tutorial video or whatever (optional would be okay), but I am for a force introductory game on a standard wargear board. Maybe as asm suggested, a forced 5-10 games of standard wargear boards, get use to the site/player, before we throw 150 complicated boards at you.

I like the combo approach.

Have the Easy button, where when you first join WarGear, you hit the "join classic game" button. Personally i think that it should be on the Global Warfare board (easiest to understand for anyone not use to fill mode)

this Easy button game when created will send out an invite to everyone on the Welcome committee, then ONE person from that committee could join the easy button game and encourage the new players. the easy button game would start as soon as the five slots fill up (with or with out someone from the welcome committee in the game)

When the easy button game is finnished the players are directed to the look for the boards in the board tab with the green check beside then name indicating that that board is new player friendly. there could also be a red X beside some of the boards that are meant for veteran players. these red and green pointers could be disabled once a player has played 20 games. The red and green pointers would also show up on the home page for the games waiting for players.

KrocK wrote:

When the easy button game is finnished the players are directed to the look for the boards in the board tab with the green check beside then name indicating that that board is new player friendly. there could also be a red X beside some of the boards that are meant for veteran players. these red and green pointers could be disabled once a player has played 20 games. The red and green pointers would also show up on the home page for the games waiting for players.

I don't like the idea of telling players what they are ready for..  Let them know (put a skull and crossbones on it if you want), but it should be their choice as early as possible..  Give players credit for being able to assess their own abilities after they've played a game or two..  For me, having to play ten probationary games to get to the one I really want to play is just like making Cram sit through a tutorial.

I like the idea of a designated welcome team, but as for certain beginners games or forced tutorials, we sure wouldn't want to sit through technical lessons, so shouldn't make others. If they come from CC or warfish, it would just be an annoying delay to the fun. Just a few new things under the help tab would be good.
Now that part about the techical part is one thing, but a way to let the wargear community find the new players to welcome them nicely is different.

Jebus man, let it die. Before you get banned for life for being a stupid hypocrite for passive-aggressively continuing the abuse elsewhere (here) while pretending it's a vague-and-unrelated-to-some-ongoing-feud example about bad behavior.

I love you, Dwarf, really; but this is silly. Also, take your spanking and go back to your desk quietly. This thread doesn't need to be further hijacked.

lol, do you want to give someone a spanking or something? No one got a spanking. And no one said anything about forums, not giving name(s) was deliberate. Not many are gonna know what that is about. But there was a point to be made.

If you want to debate my motivations or whatever, feel free to PM me, so you don't look like a stupid hypocrite while mentioning hijacking of threads and going off topic... ;)  Peace buddy!!

I also like the idea of sort of marking the difficulties of boards. But maybe the map makers could just implement it into a description or something? It wouldn't be visible from the home page is the downside. But some sort of quick rating system could help, just veteran would keep it simple. We don't need to coddle, but it could come in handy for some people finding this to be all new and complex.

Is there a way to contact people with accounts not being used and get some feedback? Rather than guess issues, maybe a survey could be made? Someone already offered to talk to some friends and family to investigate why the accounts aren't used, but I don't think I saw a result from the interviews.

Oh yeah, and the T-Shirts. That would be good.
Earlier I noted that I could not find wargear page on facebook. Any tips or a direct URL that could be posted?