Thingol wrote:

Good point...and some don't.  I just saw someone start a 10-second 4-player LOTGR game and it went boot, boot, boot, win.

Also a good point. I too prefer this not happen. And I want to be able to play really fast games!

I think, unless there is going to be some factor that the board designer can put on a game (perhaps the min turn time can be added to the designer rules?), that the lowest common denominator needs to be the rule.

Thingol wrote:

Can someone care to explain the 3 settings for the Fischer clock?  I looked at the help and there is no explanation.

I believe the first setting is the amount of time you start with, the second is how much time is added at the beginning of each turn, and the third can be used to set a max time. Although, you can keep the third setting at zero and you just get the time allotted to you each turn from the second setting. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So essentially, what's going on here is there are a few players who capitalize on the feature by creating unreasonably timed games.  The victims are probably mostly noobies, and that's not good for the site.

On the other side of the coin, we have games that potentially offer excellent game-play with a speedy  <1min clock. 

While the warning pop-up seems like a decent solution to me, another that comes to mind is to limit the clock options on a a board by board basis.  This could be done by the designer working with the review team.  While this strikes me as a cumbersome and subjective way to do it, I figured I'd throw it out there.   ..not to mention, how do you deal with existing boards whose designers are not active?

We seem in agreement M57. I think for the "orphaned" boards, the Review team would have to make the call. 3ET, I was thinking the 3rd setting was for OVERALL game time, so thanks for straightening me out on that.

Hugh wrote:

This is not universally true across games. Some games, like Go-geared or Hex or Oct or Seven or... really only require three clicks per move which is less than 10 seconds.

These are all 2 player, deterministic boards.  Are these types of boards the only ones fit for super-fast games?

Jumbolero wrote:

I tried one and never again. to see what is going on has to go out, refresh and re-enter, it takes 30 seconds only to do it. makes no sense because you can not finish what you started, but you have to stop, or be skipped. I know you do not have to go out but then you see what happened at the moment when your turn comes, and if you have 1 card it always saying that you have one, and your opponent too. who likes this let them play but it should be a warning for beginners who do not know what it is about.

I disagree that you need to go out to see what the updates are, there's a little player refresh button in the upper right corner, that if you click it will let you see what's going on as it happens. This is almost instantaneous.

It IS true about the cards info not being updated without a page refresh tho..

Amidon37 wrote:

Hugh wrote:

This is not universally true across games. Some games, like Go-geared or Hex or Oct or Seven or... really only require three clicks per move which is less than 10 seconds.

These are all 2 player, deterministic boards.  Are these types of boards the only ones fit for super-fast games?

I've played Arm Wrestle lightning and it's clear to me that 10 seconds would be too fast for a single turn, but 20 or 30 seconds should work. (Clearly Steal the Bacon can withstand any speed!)

But, the key to a playable blitz game is a small number of clicks. Limited attacks as with deterministic boards or a very small board. WGWF is small, but maybe not small enough for certain speeds.

You mention 'blitz' games Hugh, keep in mind that part of my issue is that people have to know they are in a blitz game when they join.  A blitz game, to me, is a game where speed of execution becomes more important than strategy and tactics.

It is not enough to set the right time limits for a blitz game, we also need time limits that indicate when someone is in a blitz game.  For example, you could say for WGWF 1 v 1, a time of 2 minutes to 1 minute is a blitz game, a timer of less than 1 minute is not allowed, and blitz games are ranked seperately.  Of course, this may not be practical to implement, not sure.

SquintGnome wrote:

You mention 'blitz' games Hugh, keep in mind that part of my issue is that people have to know they are in a blitz game when they join.  A blitz game, to me, is a game where speed of execution becomes more important than strategy and tactics.

I fully agree on the communication issue. People should know what they're getting into.

The real purpose of blitz games is to play many games in a short amount of time. In the setting of this site, it is also one of the only mechanisms for real-time games since 10 minute turns can be excruciating.

If the time is set right, the advantage goes to those with knowledge and experience, not to those with reflex advantages. (Chess grandmasters are almost always phenomenal blitz players.)

As with Hugh, I agree that I -prefer- games with just 30 seconds (not Simulgear boards but click and attack boards).  Games with 2 or 3 minute turns for me I'll often tab out and then get skipped and lose... in 30second turns you sit down and play till it's done... quickly. 

I agree people should be aware of the time, but 30 seconds isn't ludicrous.  10-seconds is, in my opinion, ludicrous, but in conjunction with delayed time, or just for people that like the click frenzy it's fine.

1. Suggestions for improvement - all games carry mandatory 2-minute initial time.  This prevents you from getting booted if you are the first player and it's 10-second turns.

2. As others have said, it should be very visible what the times are.  People should always be in the habit of looking at the Fischer Clock before joining, but it should be easy to see.

Lots of good arguments. But, my thought is let the buyer beware. As long as it's clear what people are about to join, it's on them to read the details before joining. If you get burned once and keep trying that's your own fault.

I never play any of the real time games, because even at 10 minute turns I'm worried about skips, life distracting me, or internet going down just long enough to blow the game.

When I want fast action I just create a bunch of 1 day games and someone will usually jump in at the same time.

itsnotatumor wrote:

Lots of good arguments. But, my thought is let the buyer beware. As long as it's clear what people are about to join, it's on them to read the details before joining. If you get burned once and keep trying that's your own fault.

I never play any of the real time games, because even at 10 minute turns I'm worried about skips, life distracting me, or internet going down just long enough to blow the game, etc.

When I want fast action I just create a bunch of 1 day games and someone will usually jump in at the same time.

30 sec is to fast. I don't know how he does it.

I play a lot of blitz chess online and the games are totally different.

With chess you move just one piece, it's quick and you can play almost without thinking.

Here we have to many actions.  click click boot!

tnsnake wrote:

30 sec is to fast. I don't know how he does it.

I play a lot of blitz chess online and the games are totally different.

With chess you move just one piece, it's quick and you can play almost without thinking.

Here we have to many actions.  click click boot!

Not with all games; there are a number of games here that only require a few clicks per turn. 30 seconds is pushing it, but not unreasonable.

Actually, if you think of it. Even with a game like WarGear Warfare, a 30 second clock simply reduces the amount of moves you can reasonably make in a turn. Think of it like a blitz protector.

tnsnake wrote:

30 sec is to fast. I don't know how he does it.

My guess is keyboard shortcuts.

Talking about blitz game, are some players here do it the chess way ? (initial time 15 minutes for example and no additional time each turn  So you could win even in a desperate position if the opponent has no time left).