Is there a list of players who are proficient and/or enjoy simulplay?  If not, can we start one?

I don't think I qualify for either, but am still willing to help testing new boards. :)

Yeah, I's not proficient but quite like to play. 

I think it's safe to say I'm neither, but I would like to know more about how factories work in simulgear.

I've just used the basic factories so far for A&A and Kursk...I think Squint's factories for Stalingrad were also the basic variety.  Unfortunately, other than Kjeld and Cramchakle (& Wallace and Toaster when they were still here), the best map makers seem to shy away from the Simulgear maps, so I'm not sure the more complex factories have been used yet.

Thingol wrote:

I've just used the basic factories so far for A&A and Kursk...I think Squint's factories for Stalingrad were also the basic variety.  Unfortunately, other than Kjeld and Cramchakle (& Wallace and Toaster when they were still here), the best map makers seem to shy away from the Simulgear maps, so I'm not sure the more complex factories have been used yet.

I don't know what category of map maker I fall into, but I will admit that I don't care for SG, probably because I don't understand it (actually it's more that I just find it unintuitive and not Risk-like enough - but I'm OK with feigning lack of intelligence), which is in turn why I don't design for it.

I have wondered on occasion if it might be possible to create a Ren Wars/War of the Roses style Simulgear map that would require players to reach a variable threshold of resource control in order to win, but the attack on the crown win condition might not work given that everyone could be attacking the crown on the same "turn."  But then I could be wrong because I've never taken the time to understand when factories fire in SG.

You can put me on the list Thingol

Didn't know you were still around Squint - good to see.

M57, I think most here would acknowledge you as the best or in the top couple designers.  I had you in mind with my previous post.  It would be interesting to see what you could do factory-wise with a simulgear map.  I think you should come out of your self-imposed semi-retirement to create one.  

I'm curious how factories can be used if they happen for each player at the same time.  If we all autocapture a territory, who gets it?

Thingol wrote:

Didn't know you were still around Squint - good to see.

M57, I think most here would acknowledge you as the best or in the top couple designers.  I had you in mind with my previous post.  It would be interesting to see what you could do factory-wise with a simulgear map.  I think you should come out of your self-imposed semi-retirement to create one.  

Thanks for the very generous compliment.  But honestly, I think that because I don't have a handle on the subtleties of SG game-play, I wonder that I would be able to design a solid board.  For instance it always seems to me that the popular SG boards lack choke-points.  I almost feel like before I delve heavily into the factory side of things, I'd first have make a decent board for game-play.  From there, I'd probably come up with a factory technique or hook that I'd like to explore, then think of the what kind of board, theme - etc to go with.  But really, it's like that other thread that's up right now. You really should have the basics down and a good feel for game-play before you start playing with factory magic.

You can put me on the list, too. I'm generally up for a simulgear game if I haven't got too many going!

I've only played Dalmabache with simulgear, but i found it pretty interesting, and would be up for testing a new board

Me too.

M57 -- "For instance it always seems to me that the popular SG boards lack choke-points. "

I don't see that. My Kingdom, most of the many Tolkien boards, A&A -- very choky.

smoke wrote:

M57 -- "For instance it always seems to me that the popular SG boards lack choke-points. "

I don't see that. My Kingdom, most of the many Tolkien boards, A&A -- very choky.

SimulGear boards do play differently, and the notion of a "choke point" can be slightly different in SG. For example, since you can only advance one border per turn in SG, a choke point might just exist at the point of the shortest route between two key areas of the board, rather than only where there is literally no other way around.

Now that I think about it, Dalmoboche is SG for placement only, I assume other SG boards use that mode for attack as well, so I have even less experience than others here, but still willing to test a board if you need more players

Kjeld wrote:

SimulGear boards do play differently, and the notion of a "choke point" can be slightly different in SG. For example, since you can only advance one border per turn in SG, a choke point might just exist at the point of the shortest route between two key areas of the board, rather than only where there is literally no other way around.

Right - So an Antastic type of board (where practically every territory is a choke point) would be a SG nightmare.

Antastic might actually play ok, depending on the number of players allowed.  It could be a looooong game, which may try the patience of some.

Thingol wrote:

Antastic might actually play ok, depending on the number of players allowed.  It could be a looooong game, which may try the patience of some.

That touches on one of my over-arching design criteria. For me at least, long games are a sign of poor design. I like games that run 15 to 30 moves, with the sweet spot probably somewhere on the lower side of that spread - maybe 18-22 moves.  I suppose you could bump up those numbers up by 5 moves with very large maps, but you get the idea.

Which brings me to one of my problems with Simulgear. I just don't like the one move at a time aspect of play.  I didn't like it on TOS and I don't like it here. I was at one time working on a theoretical Simulgear-like engine that let players plot multiple moves per turn, or turns per move, depending on your definition of the words, and it would play on most any existing board.  At that time, WarGear members were actively involved in deciding on a second engine for play, but membership was mostly made up of refugees from TOS.  It pretty much became a foregone conclusion what SG would look like, in large part I believe because folks wanted to port some of their favorite SG-like boards over here. I fought a valiant but fruitless battle for my idea.  Kjeld had one as well - his was better than SG in my opinion, but this is what what we ended up with.  So ..it's not inconceivable that part of my dislike of SG comes from the fact that I think it should have had a much better and more intuitive engine for play in the first place.

Edward Nygma wrote:

I'm curious how factories can be used if they happen for each player at the same time.  If we all autocapture a territory, who gets it?

That's also one of my problems with SG.. It's not truly simultaneous.  In fact, there is an order for execution - so factories don't aren't really executed simultaneously.  What that order is ..is confusing to say the least.  At one point in time I think I understood it.

BTW, for those who might not be familiar with Edward because he is not seen often on these forums - he is one of, if not THE premier designer when it comes to 'programming' factories.  His designs and design theories have been an inspiration to me and catalyst for many of my designs. Most of his boards are ground breaking, brilliant and devilishly complex.

M57 wrote:

Kjeld had one as well

That's right, I'd forgotten all about KESP (Kjeld's Engine for Simultaneous Play)!