I am reacting to this thread

http://www.wargear.net/forum/showthread/2038/Information_only_Multiple_account_bans

where more accounts have been banned. It's nice to see some action is taken.

But as I mentioned in another thread, I think points lost in 1 vs 1 games should not be recovered, as no cheating could have been going.

And in this case, Crocop/TERMINATOR/MaliSlon played tons of them.

Thoughts ?

Toto wrote:

But as I mentioned in another thread, I think points lost in 1 vs 1 games should not be recovered, as no cheating could have been going.

That's not necessarily true.  1vs1 games are still affected because the ranking of the cheater has been inflated or deflated as a result of the games in which he/she did cheat.

What if Pete Rose would have just bet on other games and not the Reds or even if he did bet on the Reds, but that they would win?  He still would have been fluctuating the rest of the spreads and/or the spreads of his own games and therefore affecting everything else.  (This analogy works best if you don't attempt to actually think deep on it )

Behold, the deep intertwines of the world!!! 

Toto - based on your comments when we last discussed this the points scraping code was modified.

Only games where 2 or more of the cheating accounts are present and one of those cheating accounts wins are set to 'Terminated' and points recovered by participating players.

Yertle wrote:

Toto wrote:

But as I mentioned in another thread, I think points lost in 1 vs 1 games should not be recovered, as no cheating could have been going.

That's not necessarily true.  1vs1 games are still affected because the ranking of the cheater has been inflated or deflated as a result of the games in which he/she did cheat.

...

Yes there is a problem with the ranking of the cheater. I would say it should be fixed to 1000, so it's as neutral as possible. But taking the points when you win 1 vs 1 games with no loss when you lose is just unfair in regard of the ranking fairness. We talked about inflation in another thread.

Ironically, assuming that cheaters have better than deserved ratings, in 2-player games, the non-cheating opponent is theoretically getting bonus points every time they win, and a discount on points lost every time they lose.

Regardless, the only equitable way to include these games (for the benefit of non-cheaters)would be to remove all of the cheaters non-2-player games, and let the cheater's rank move normally per all of the 2-player game results.  This is what would happen anyway given the way tom has the scores re-calculated every once in a while, right?

Hmm.. peeling off another layer of inference here.  Assuming that many players consider their opponent's rating before joining two-player games (in their own efforts to "game" the system), it could be considered unfair that these players were duped into believing that the cheater was a better player than advertised.

..that's as deep as I'm going before I've had a cup of coffee this morning.

just wondering how justice is done when my teammate Terminator in tournament game is banned? Team scores will be lost for me because of him...?

Vidoviti Milan wrote:

just wondering how justice is done when my teammate Terminator in tournament game is banned? Team scores will be lost for me because of him...?

Team tournament games don't count for team ranking nor do they count for tournament ranking!! (I mean, not saying this is the right way, but... kinda funny that it all works out just fine.)

lol nice, means I do not need to worry that my rank will drop. thanks for quick answer.

Hugh wrote:

Vidoviti Milan wrote:

just wondering how justice is done when my teammate Terminator in tournament game is banned? Team scores will be lost for me because of him...?

Team tournament games don't count for team ranking nor do they count for tournament ranking!! (I mean, not saying this is the right way, but... kinda funny that it all works out just fine.)

Well, there is a team tournament ranking actually - but you can only see it if you click on the stats of each individual that you want to see (there is no listing anywhere).

It is our last game and it is just formality anyway, statistically insignificant, because the winning team is already known. But in case to be fighting for the trophy I would be a lot more nervous.

I assume when a cheater is kicked their tournament games can't be rerun, so trophies would never be gained or lost when a cheater is exposed?

It would be lost if they were on your team, and you were thinking you might win it...

Losing a teammate due to boots is a lot more common vs. having a banned cheater...Let's not make a system for the outliers.

tom wrote:

Toto - based on your comments when we last discussed this the points scraping code was modified.

Only games where 2 or more of the cheating accounts are present and one of those cheating accounts wins are set to 'Terminated' and points recovered by participating players.

Great, I did not realize it was modified :)

My reply following yours was writen while you was posting yours, so I am only reading it now, by chance.

M57 wrote:

Ironically, assuming that cheaters have better than deserved ratings, in 2-player games, the non-cheating opponent is theoretically getting bonus points every time they win, and a discount on points lost every time they lose.

Regardless, the only equitable way to include these games (for the benefit of non-cheaters)would be to remove all of the cheaters non-2-player games, and let the cheater's rank move normally per all of the 2-player game results.  This is what would happen anyway given the way tom has the scores re-calculated every once in a while, right?

I fully agree with you M. It's much better than setting the cheater's ranking to 1000 as I suggested.