The M-Engine site is up and ready for consumption.  There's a lot of material up there because though it's not a terribly complex design, it is capable of creating and dealing with a number of quite complicated scenarios and I want to preemptively answer as many questions as possible so this thread can be mostly devoted to debating the engine's merits and/or perhaps suggesting modifications (..not that you can't ask questions here too).

Be sure to check out the slide presentations that demonstrate some of the fundamental workings of the engine in action.

Of course there will be a few "holes" in the design that need to be dealt with, but I'm confident that most of these will fall in the "special case" category or will have to do with implementation of some of the more advanced features. The basic workings of the engine should be sound.

Please visit and take a look around..

I always thought BAO stood for "Blind at Once", not "Board at Once".

I don't have permission to access the "Standard Intertwined Attacks" document, which is linked in the "Basic Description" page.

Same with "Multiple Attacks on a Defender".

"At the beginning of every round the engine always checks to see if it can execute any attack orders, so it is possible for players to create what amounts to a "stack" of orders by making a single move. They simply attack their own territory. No long list of phantom orders is necessary (or possible for that matter). If at anytime, that territory is held by an enemy, an attack commences. An additional layer of sophistication is possible with this type of order if delayed orders are enabled*."

I like it.

Vataro wrote: I don't have permission to access the "Standard Intertwined Attacks" document, which is linked in the "Basic Description" page.

I just figured out how to make the damn thing.. Figures no one can see it.

Permission should be granted now.

Vataro wrote: I always thought BAO stood for "Blind at Once", not "Board at Once".

Fixed.  ..or at least changed.

I still can't access them.

Vataro wrote: I still can't access them.

Edit: Hopefully it's fixed now.  I'm still figuring it out.

It occurs to me that the M-Engine could be used in a more traditional fashion by letting players make their moves in the order they want them delivered.  Hence on round 1 each player is restricted to one roll of the offensive dice for one territory only.  All the different players’ attacks would play out, and at whatever round the last order is completed (or defeated), all player’s next orders kick in. This is the paradigm that BAO uses.

Or you could use a hybrid model where each player only has one attack in effect on any given round, but globally orders are interwoven because of different battle lengths.

But why would you want this? You’d be inviting the whole order stacking issue.

Why, when you can have any order delivered essentially at the exact time you want it and/or have the orders being issued on an event dependent basis? The M-Engine is just too powerful for us to let it be limited by an order sequencing system of adjudication.

Where in real life are multiple battles fought in sequence?  â€œOk, General Handstied, you can’t attack in Russia even though you have armies ready and waiting there because General I. M. Tooimportant has to attack Brazil first.”

Yeah, it’s only a game, but really!.. Why not have the engine bring the game closer to the way reality works?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could bring the BAO people over here from ToS not only because we have a better community, but because we have a better game!

...
Are you asking yourself questions and then answering them?

Is that a rhetorical question?

OK What’s up? No comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Questions? No one understands it?  No one cares?  tl;dr? (Geeze, I even put pictures in there for you)  ..or are you all too proud to step forward and admit that you kind of like it, and you’re getting tired of stacking phantom orders and intuitively know there’s gotta be a better way?

I’ve been updating the site, simplifying and clarifying explanations, and filling technical holes.  If you haven’t checked it out in the last few days, you might want to go back and take a look.

If there are three or four people interested, I would even consider setting up and running a test game using a standard map. We’ll begin it on a WarGear map for starting positions.  I’ll use a slide presentation on the M-Engine site so folks can follow what’s going on. Players PM their orders to me and I’ll roll all the dice (Real dice! No modifiers please) and post the results.  Don’t make me play.  I cheat!

I’m sure some of you are looking at the number of fields that need to be filled in to place an order and thinking that this’ll be too complicated and scare off the noobs.  Others could care less how the guts of this thing works, and just want to know how it might feel to play.

So because a picture is worth two or three web pages, I’ve created an imaginary presentation of what placing an attack order might look like.  Remember, placing an “order” is more like just playing, you simply attack and the Flash Player moves you forward.  Make as many attacks as you want and select End Turn.  That’s it.

This two-slide presentation shows how an order can be placed with just a few clicks, and that it could be so intuitive that someone new to the site could practically play without even noticing that it’s a BAO game.

"OK What’s up? No comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Questions? No one understands it? No one cares? tl;dr?"

to be honest i've backed away from the BaO talks as i've not the time lately to think about them much. haven't even had time to think about that new board. if/when i do get a bug up my ass i'll try to put some thought into these. sorry

It looks interesting, and I'd like to try it, though I am afraid to commit time at this point. Testing would go a long way towards getting a feel for it and getting feedback.

Hugh wrote: It looks interesting, and I'd like to try it, though I am afraid to commit time at this point. Testing would go a long way towards getting a feel for it and getting feedback.

Yes, Yes, Absolutely. Yes.

Then let's do this!

I've set up a board where I plan to maintain a slide show on the M-Engine site so the game can be followed by everyone (perhaps with commentary if I have time).  Directly below the board are links to order forms, which I will give the individual players permission to access and edit.   I think we want 4-5 players to put the thing through it's paces, though 3 will work if we're having trouble finding players. 

If interested, please take a quick look at the forms to see if you have any questions, and PM me with your E-mail address so I can set up permission.

I defend in 3 weeks. In responding to Hugh's post, I should have put a banner with lights around the "absolutely" that was a meant to be a response specifically to the "I don't have time to commit at this point" part .

There's no rush.  FWIW, I'm thinking that considering the amount of time it will take me to run a turn and alter the graphics and put it up, it may take a few days per turn, but we'll see.

I don't get the sense that Tom is in a great hurry to make a decision.  Heck, seeing as no one's speaking up on this thread I'm starting to worry that there's not enough interest in BAO at this point, ..either that or there's not enough interest in exploring options, 'cause nobody's said the idea stinks yet.

I'm trying to make the process as painless as possible for whoever joins. Minimally I'm planning on keeping a current map up and it looks like the Google spreadsheet forms for each player will be pretty easy and quick to fill out.

Anyway, based on the lack of activity on this thread it could take a month to fill the game. Geesh!

I'd like to be able to run more than one, so hopefully I can get one going sooner than later.