..almost hijacked a thread - so bringing it here..

The idea is to make the "Designer" for any (or maybe just select boards) available to all players (perhaps for a fee).

There are a number of ways I can think to do this, but I'll outline the first model that comes to mind:

• A copy of the board (including all scenarios?) is placed in the player's "Designs" page.
• Players can change existing or create new scenarios, making any alterations they want to the board.
• Only Private games are allowed to be created ..unless perhaps there is a way to make absolutely sure that there will be no confusion regarding when it's a clone.
• There might need to have certain restrictions (omissions in the designer) - in part to simplify the designer, but there would be other reasons. I think omitting the Settings Tab(no changing the images) and Cards Tab would be a good start.
• Of course, as a designer, I would be all for pointing this revenue toward the designer.. and it doesn't have to be a premium feature - I'm thinking it could be available to all - BUT private games started on these boards would COUNT toward game totals ..adding one more incentive encouraging players to pony up for Premium Membership.

Other Advantages:

• Finally ..a pretty cool way of supporting designers if we want.
• New Players may take an interest in designing more boards for the site, getting more involved in the community in the process.
• I'm speculating here, but people who purchase these boards are more likely to invite friends and relatives to play.

Likely uses:

• Custom starting set-up positions to test strategies, handicap players, 
• Force seat allocations (the catalyst/inspiration for this idea)
• Change Bonuses, Neutral count, team settings, fortification rules, etc.
• Experiment with dice mods, change or eliminate borders, most anything the design tab offers.

I really like this idea, so +1.

You know how it is M, you put ALOT of time into balancing and tweaking a game to get it right, and to iron out the kinks... are you willing to let others make a mess of that perfection?

ratsy wrote:

You know how it is M, you put ALOT of time into balancing and tweaking a game to get it right, and to iron out the kinks... are you willing to let others make a mess of that perfection?

..for $?  Uhmm..  Lemme think..  Uhmmmm..

Yep.

But seriously, that's why I think they should be used for private games only.  Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite happened.  Anyone that's willing to take the time to learn their way around the Designer is more likely to try to tweak a board for specific purposes, such as those in the outline.  I wouldn't at all be surprised if many if not most of the boards on this site end up getting tweaked for much better 1v1 play.

Will some of them not work?  Sure.. but all games will be clearly marked as being "Altered" by the player. the games don't count, so they won't impact the board stats.

Okay, for private games only - +1

M57 wrote:

ratsy wrote:

You know how it is M, you put ALOT of time into balancing and tweaking a game to get it right, and to iron out the kinks... are you willing to let others make a mess of that perfection?

..for $?  Uhmm..  Lemme think..  Uhmmmm..

Yep.

But seriously, that's why I think they should be used for private games only.  Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite happened.  Anyone that's willing to take the time to learn their way around the Designer is more likely to try to tweak a board for specific purposes, such as those in the outline.  I wouldn't at all be surprised if many if not most of the boards on this site end up getting tweaked for much better 1v1 play.

Will some of them not work?  Sure.. but all games will be clearly marked as being "Altered" by the player. the games don't count, so they won't impact the board stats.

i like the idea so i can get suggestions on how to tweak my boards for better play or other option/scenario ideas (which i see this being the biggest outcome from it).

I would even be OK letting members pay to make a custom scenario publicly available, just not for ranked games (would be kind of like beta boards or public dev games); that last caveat is only to prevent cheating or otherwise gaming the ranking system. There could be a separate link/tab for each board that showed custom scenarios that people have published for it.

For this system to work, I think that the board designers should have the ability choose whether to allow others to make custom scenarios.

+1

I think it could be cool for a Secondary Designer that has purchased the Board to be able tweak and play privately, then possibly submit to the Primary Designer for Review and Live release as a Scenario of the primary Board if accepted.

Yertle wrote:

I think it could be cool for a Secondary Designer that has purchased the Board to be able tweak and play privately, then possibly submit to the Primary Designer for Review and Live release as a Scenario of the primary Board if accepted.

I like this idea in principle, but as you know scenarios often require different graphics, if only to differentiate them from other scenarios.  So either the primary has to step in a do some work, or the secondary would need access to root files or at least the board images at a minimum.

Some of my boards were created with software I no longer use or have access to (paint.net is for PC only). In fact, I don't doubt that some of my original files with layers, etc.. are gone.

Kjeld wrote:

I would even be OK letting members pay to make a custom scenario publicly available, just not for ranked games (would be kind of like beta boards or public dev games); that last caveat is only to prevent cheating or otherwise gaming the ranking system. There could be a separate link/tab for each board that showed custom scenarios that people have published for it.

For this system to work, I think that the board designers should have the ability choose whether to allow others to make custom scenarios.

+1 to all of the above.

Yertle wrote:

+1

I think it could be cool for a Secondary Designer that has purchased the Board to be able tweak and play privately, then possibly submit to the Primary Designer for Review and Live release as a Scenario of the primary Board if accepted.

this is what i was meaning by advising me to good tweaks/upgrades

M57 wrote: So either the primary has to step in a do some work, or the secondary would need access to root files or at least the board images at a minimum.

Some of my boards were created with software I no longer use or have access to (paint.net is for PC only). In fact, I don't doubt that some of my original files with layers, etc.. are gone.

Everyone already has access to the Board Images (you can DL them from the Designer).  Doing minor tweaks to change for the Scenario (ie throwing some text over the top) wouldn't be too monumental, although bigger changes would require more dedication either for the Secondary or with help from the Primary.

I'm in the same boat with some of my Boards in regards to the originals and Paint.Net, they may be gone :/

Yertle wrote:

M57 wrote: So either the primary has to step in a do some work, or the secondary would need access to root files or at least the board images at a minimum.

Some of my boards were created with software I no longer use or have access to (paint.net is for PC only). In fact, I don't doubt that some of my original files with layers, etc.. are gone.

Everyone already has access to the Board Images (you can DL them from the Designer).  Doing minor tweaks to change for the Scenario (ie throwing some text over the top) wouldn't be too monumental, although bigger changes would require more dedication either for the Secondary or with help from the Primary.

I'm in the same boat with some of my Boards in regards to the originals and Paint.Net, they may be gone :/

My original proposal was that the Designer Tab would not be available - but I suppose it would be a necessity if we wanted to really open up the customization.

M57 wrote:

My original proposal was that the Designer Tab would not be available - but I suppose it would be a necessity if we wanted to really open up the customization.

It's already available to everyone.

Yertle wrote:

M57 wrote:

My original proposal was that the Designer Tab would not be available - but I suppose it would be a necessity if we wanted to really open up the customization.

It's already available to everyone.

Ahem.  I keep forgetting - ..some of us with Macs are unable to use the upload/download buttons on the Settings tab.  I have to use the Actions button on the Designs page, which currently only includes my designs.   Of course, this shouldn't be a problem if the purchase puts the game on a given member's design page.

Well,  designers like the idea, but we're not hearing from those who might purchase a board, which is not a good sign.

Nonetheless, and moving forward (and at the risk of hi-jacking my own thread), another consideration/concern that comes to mind is ease of use of the Designer.  The Designer has become sophisticated and quite powerful, and as any designer here can attest, there are not insignificant learning curves associated with some of it's areas.  Even seasoned designers have to fiddle with certain features to get the desired result.

I think this has been proposed before, but I think it's worth mentioning again in light of the possibility that the designer could potentially be used by a much larger population if boards go up for sale.  Perhaps there needs to be a stripped-down Basic version of the designer, the criteria of which would be that it could create a standard Wargear Warfare map.

Design --> Territories: No Max Units, No Placement Disabled 

Design --> Borders: All are Two-Way Default (no tethering, no chaining - even these can be confusing)

Design --> Continents: Standard Continents Only; No Caps & No Factories

Design --> Modifiers: OMIT

Design --> Set-Up: OMIT

Rules --> Gameplay: OMIT Abandonment

Rules --> OMIT entire Initial Set up sub-tab (except neutral count).

There should be the ability to easily switch back and forth between basic and advanced versions (i.e., not in Settings).  It would be best if something like this was in place and reasonably debugged before boards went up for sale.

I don't think another version of the Designer is needed. While the Designer can be somewhat complex, it is pretty much all needed and the advanced items can be ignored if not needed.

I agree with Yertle.  If anything, maybe a 'simple mode' toggle that simply hides some of the factory & other more advanced stuff. 

But I don't think the complexity of the designer is the main thing keeping people from making maps.

Ozyman wrote:

I agree with Yertle.  If anything, maybe a 'simple mode' toggle that simply hides some of the factory & other more advanced stuff. 

But I don't think the complexity of the designer is the main thing keeping people from making maps.

Well, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting - a 'simplicity mode.'