True, but at least threads like this can help him brainstorm if he's interested in hearing different perspectives and ideas. We might think of a point that hasn't occurred to him.

I like the idea, but I think there could be a problem with the fact that those games are rated.  Restricting play this way could have a little "unfairness" factor.  I'm not saying it does - I'm just suggesting it might.

Not any more than limiting standard accounts to 10 active games.

Amidon37 wrote:

Not any more than limiting standard accounts to 10 active games.

Maybe so - but in a different, discriminating way.  The 10-active games rule doesn't preclude players from being able to play specific types of games.  I'm just playing devil's advocate here, with the idea that everyone can play and rank on an even playing field, regardless of whether or not they pay.

Thanks for the input guys. Definitely misread the cost/month lol.

M57 wrote:

Amidon37 wrote:

Not any more than limiting standard accounts to 10 active games.

Maybe so - but in a different, discriminating way.  The 10-active games rule doesn't preclude players from being able to play specific types of games.  I'm just playing devil's advocate here, with the idea that everyone can play and rank on an even playing field, regardless of whether or not they pay.

Neither does the idea of limiting the ability to start lightning games.  Goood to have a devil's advocate, but that argument doesn't hold. 

The point of a standard user is to give people the opportunity to try it out at no cost AND give the the casual user the opportunity to play. If people are playing a premium amount of games through an arguable loophole they should get an extra nudge to chip in for the good of all.

Three questions:

What is the probability of limiting lightning games making a standard user quit? I'm guessing very low.

What is the probability of a standard user upgrading if they want to play more games? I'm guessing higher than the first one?

Will it have any effect at all? (This is probably one only Tom can answer.)

RoyalCrown wrote:

Thanks for the input guys. Definitely misread the cost/month lol.

Lol, and look at all the great debate that misread started.  =D

itsnotatumor wrote:

The point of a standard user is to give people the opportunity to try it out at no cost AND give the the casual user the opportunity to play.

There is a sense in which you are right, but in the past the paradigm for deciding which features can become premium features has more to do with the question "Does it give the Premium member an unfair advantage?" If so, it shouldn't be a premium feature. 

I'm just saying that if you extend that paradigm to not just winning and losing at the game level, but also at the ranking level, and especially Global Ranking (It's near impossible for a Standard member to be competitive in Championship points), it does seem as if there's an unfair aspect to such a rule.

Will it have any effect at all? (This is probably one only Tom can answer.)

This is a good question, though I wonder if even Tom can answer it.

Again, I'm not against it.. I actually think I could be for it.  I just want to make sure the idea gets it's due diligence. 

I don't agree with limiting the ability to start lightning games. Then again I don't see standard accounts as only the trial version of the website. There are plenty of standard members that have been playing for years. Though they don't add funds to the site, they do contribute by filling up games and discussing on the forum. This shouldn't be punished by limiting the ability to start any type of game, IMO.

itsnotatumor wrote:

+1  If people are only occasional users that's one thing, but if people are playing a premium number of games, but staying under the standard cap by playing only lightnings... I say give the extra incentive to cough up the 82 cents a day.  I paid after my first week, when I realized I wanted more games and to see my stats.

*Couph up the 8 cents a day. You definitely get your moneys worth, no doubt about that

I don't agree with limiting the ability to start lightning games. Then again I don't see standard accounts as only the trial version of the website. There are plenty of standard members that have been playing for years. Though they don't add funds to the site, they do contribute by filling up games and discussing on the forum. This shouldn't be punished by limiting the ability to start any type of game, IMO.

Why shouldn't you become a member? I mean if 30 USD a year is the problem you should think about finding a job instead of hanging around gaming! Most of us spend many hours here which are worth way more then those 30 dollars.

If you care about this site you become a member, if you don't then you don't. It's more a matter of mentality then a matter of money -- simple as that.

$30 is not even close to a problem Luieuil. I was just simply comparing what else $30 can buy me and the if that comparison makes any sense.

By the way it's also $40 per year, not $30.

If you buy a year it is $30

Amidon37 wrote:

If you buy a year it is $30

25% off!!

Hello everyone!

Another thing to consider is that this site has a global participation and not all countries enjoy the same banking systems nor flexibilities that allow one simply to become premium members, even if they wanted to be so.

I have been living in Africa for a decade and when I stopped using my Canadian credit card for some years my Canadian Bank decided not to have it renewed anymore.  In Africa there are exorbitant bank fees, and high interest and bank fees that make having a credit card from a bank here of little to no desire because they're an expense that is quite simply designed to rip off the poor citizens here at a minimum (monthly fees are charged on top of interest), and, if possible to put them into a financial fix if they accrue a debt.  Most of you would be shocked to see how banks operate here.  Monthly fees on top of atm fees for using your own bank's atm machines!  In Canada I had an account whereby if I maintained a minimum balance I would never see a fee of any kind, and of course I maintained that balance because I was responsible with my finances, just like I payed my credit card off and never payed a cent of interest there. But in a part of the world where people are really financially stressed and could benefit from such an account, no bank here offers such an account, and many of the banks here are the same ones that operate completely differently in their affluent home countries!  The discrepancies between how banks operate here to their sister banks in the developed world disgusts me so much that I cannot see myself getting a credit card here at any point in the near future.  I cannot support their greed anymore then I have to to exist in my simple life.  On top of that, credit cards here, despite their expense, offer absolutely no benefits with regard to a credit rating and lower loan rates, as no credit bureau exists here. I went into a bank here a few years back when credit cards were being heavily marketed and asked them point blank why they're advertising and pushing credit cards so heavily into the market if they are not going to rate the credit history and give loan incentives and the banking officer told me point blank back that people here are not generally aware of credit ranking agencies and that the bank's primary interest was to collect fees and to have people pay their high credit card interest on their debts.  Nice attitude Barclays (a UK bank).  Basically, banks here are only trying to remove money from this economy and take it back to wealthy economies.  If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that it looks to be more a system of enforcing global enslavement by keeping the poor poor and the rich rich (even for local banks, they operate the same way that they've seen their foreign counterparts to operate here and pursue the same wealth discrepancy on a national level), then providing any kind of true and globally equitable service.  Also, PayPal does not work with the bank I have been using here, so that's a dead end as well.

Salaries for jobs that you might consider to be "high paying" in America or other industrialized nations, quite frankly, are not high paying here.  To some, 30$ might seem like a frivolously small amount that they make in a fraction of their work day at their job, but in other parts of the world that's a months salary for many people, and could even be two days salary for many professionals in such countries!  I know Doctors and Lawyers here that earn a salary that works out to be about 15-20 dollars per day and it's difficult for that to take them and their families through the month as food prices seem to be skyrocketing globally!  I do realize that members from such countries are the minority, and most people that play WarGear live in much more robust economies with more financial options for signing up for a site like this, but, speaking from a different part of the world with different systems in place I can most definitely say that most people here don't do credit cards, but they do do mobile banking.  So, if we want to debate about the relevance of standard players and their entitlements on the site, then to be fair to those who live in other parts of the world who could afford, like myself, maybe Tom should allow for mobile banking phone payments for people who live in parts of the world where that is the preference over credit cards? I know that my mother-in-law uses mobile banking when she needs to send money here from her employment in Saudi Arabia, so mobile banking does seem to be breaking down some of the country boundaries. So, maybe that is a real possibility, but, I have no idea how Tom could even incorporate such a payment system?

Anyway, I feel like the topic above, while noble in that it is simply trying to increase enrollment into the ranks of premium membership, is also a bit lacking in a global perspective and some of the limitations that are present outside of the developed world.  I have resigned myself to having a standard membership.  I also hardly play any lightening games anymore as I have found blackouts and internet shortcomings to cause the occasional autoboot.  So, the original topic would only nominally effect me, if at all, but still, I feel that for any others who might be living in economies similar to mine, that they should not be overlooked nor trodden on simply for the circumstance of where and how they live.

Thanks for reading,

Erick

Luieuil wrote:

Why shouldn't you become a member? I mean if 30 USD a year is the problem you should think about finding a job instead of hanging around gaming! Most of us spend many hours here which are worth way more then those 30 dollars.

If you care about this site you become a member, if you don't then you don't. It's more a matter of mentality then a matter of money -- simple as that.

+1

berickf wrote:

 So, the original topic would only nominally effect me, if at all, but still, I feel that for any others who might be living in economies similar to mine, that they should not be overlooked nor trodden on simply for the circumstance of where and how they live.

Hey Erick,

People may or may not be aware of how horribly manipulative/subjugative the global economic system can be. I’m living in Mexico, which while high developing has some pretty significant wealth disparity issues, and some of the shit you’re talking about.   To do a standard Bank to bank transfer back home costs me $30-50 USD.

Even most Americans are exploited in ways they don’t even realize.  Peep this if you want an eye opener: http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/).

But, as you yourself stated you are a special case. The majority of people on here are from fully developed nations where the cost of a year’s membership would barely cover the cost of a meal out for two (no drinks or appetizers).  For them the cost analysis debate is not one measured vs their monthly much less yearly income, but of their weekly entertainment budget.  

There is a something for nothing mentality that is increasingly prevalent in modern society. Parasitic affluence is admired.  Why pay for ish when I can get it for free? Why contribute to the good of a community, when it will still support those who readily can pay and don’t want to?

You have an excellent and thoughtful point. But, no one is advocating for the removal of standard players.  We are advocating that those that use the services of the community at a significant level of use be encouraged to contribute what for most them is not a significant amount for a year’s daily entertainment. 

The debate is how that encouragement should be structured.  I’d say it’s a pretty fair one of what constitutes the “value added incentives” premium members should get over standard.  Not to mention as you stated it would only nominally affect you because people living in such a situation as you described probably don't have the access to support realtime. Which in a roundabout way supports the specific suggestion because it would target those that can afford reliable high speed access...

I hope you've enjoyed this journey, and uh... O'Doyle Rules!

To some, 30$ might seem like a frivolously small amount that they make in a fraction of their work day at their job, but in other parts of the world that's a months salary for many people, and could even be two days salary for many professionals in such countries! 

How do these people afford computers and daily internet access?  Fair or not, for those who have the means and are willing to pay for access, they need to be prepared to deal with the economies of the parts of the internet they wish to access.

Here's one not very clean, but possibly workable solution that comes to mind.  If you have a preferred, less expensive way to move funds.. I.e. a personal check, etc., you could find a member of the site who could pay for you.  The site provides a way for members to do this.  $30 is still $30, but if it's the exorbitant back-end fees that either offend you, or make it too expensive.. Obviously, there's a level of trust involved if you don't know anyone on the site personally, but on the plus side, there is a pretty tight little community of active players and posters to the forums that are not very likely to defraud you.

Also, you could PM tom and ask for an alternate method of payment.