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aggregate_stat [2014/02/13 14:27] ratsy |
aggregate_stat [2014/02/13 14:49] (current) ratsy |
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- | == General | + | ====== General |
**Summary: An aggregate stat could reflect the sum total of a players abilities and give a better “whole picture” of the player. However, it is combining stats that are totally different – and unrelated, and would necessarily create different values for the stats. This may or may not become the most sought after stat on the site. | **Summary: An aggregate stat could reflect the sum total of a players abilities and give a better “whole picture” of the player. However, it is combining stats that are totally different – and unrelated, and would necessarily create different values for the stats. This may or may not become the most sought after stat on the site. | ||
** | ** | ||
- | • The aggregate may not even matter to players outside the top 30 positions | + | * The aggregate may not even matter to players outside the top 30 positions |
- | • New players are not necessarily rewarded for being good a WGWF (which most players are playing) due to rank being based on CP | + | |
- | • This collection of skills may overshadow the importance of CP or GR as a score | + | |
- | • Your rank will basically determine which score is most important in many players minds -1 | + | |
- | • Players should be rewarded for plying their efforts, no matter where | + | |
- | • Highlighting everything also highlights nothing | + | |
- | • Premium members can play more games and get more points in almost all cases | + | |
- | • The more you play, the more likely you are to win – with all current stats | + | |
- | • The aggregate should include as much player information as the site captures +1, -1 | + | |
- | • a well constructed, | + | |
- | • An aggregate score is not creating any added value | + | |
- | • The added value of aggregate is a whole picture of the players stats | + | |
- | • And aggregate should encourage diversity of play styles | + | |
- | • The aggregate will not diminish the already existing stats - if their important to an individual they will stay that way | + | |
- | • One board masters will disappear into the shuffle of an aggregate | + | |
- | • Players may be discouraged by having to jump through even more hoops to improve their scores | + | |
- | • a multi-track system of achievement (like we have now) recognizes individual accomplishments (like those people who are brilliant at tourneys or a single map), but holds CP as the most important by recognition because it represents ability in diverse environments is better than some aggregate apples + oranges score where individuality and difference will all get lost in the mix | + | |
- | • And aggregate should be the most difficult stat to rank highest in | + | |
- | Arguments about the purpose of an Aggregate | + | |
- | Summary: The purpose of the aggregate stat is to give players another score to strive for (“bragging rights”) and to try to create a meaningful comparison system of either all of the players stats, or to just amalgamate their individual play stats (CP and GR). | + | |
- | • An aggregate should reflect a collection of a players individual skills | + | |
- | • it' | + | |
- | • It will reflect what abilities/ | + | |
- | • " | + | |
- | • Rewarding completeness is a measure of individual play +1 | + | |
- | • We already have stats for individual skills - but nothing to reflect the complete player | + | |
- | • The achievement system accomplishes getting players to diversify - like an aggregate would | + | |
- | • And aggregate would be stronger than the achievement system | + | |
- | • I don't think it should be the end-all goal of the site to get people to play as many boards as possible. | + | |
+ | ===== Arguments about the purpose of an Aggregate ===== | ||
- | ==About the construction of the aggregate score== | + | **Summary: The purpose of the aggregate stat is to give players another score to strive for (“bragging rights”) and to try to create a meaningful comparison system of either all of the players stats, or to just amalgamate their individual play stats (CP and GR). |
+ | ** | ||
+ | |||
+ | * An aggregate should reflect a collection of a players individual skills | ||
+ | * it's just not self-evident that a scoring system that rewards board specialists on a hot streak (whether individual play, teams, or tournaments) is as meaningful as one that takes a variety of playing skills | ||
+ | * It will reflect what abilities/ | ||
+ | * "is about rewarding the complete player" | ||
+ | * Rewarding completeness is a measure of individual play +1 | ||
+ | * We already have stats for individual skills - but nothing to reflect the complete player | ||
+ | * The achievement system accomplishes getting players to diversify - like an aggregate would | ||
+ | * And aggregate would be stronger than the achievement system | ||
+ | * I don't think it should be the end-all goal of the site to get people to play as many boards as possible. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ===== About the construction of the aggregate score ===== | ||
**Summary: There are two big topics here. The inclusion of team, tournament, trophy and H-rating stats in an aggregate, and how much each of the included stats should be weighted. | **Summary: There are two big topics here. The inclusion of team, tournament, trophy and H-rating stats in an aggregate, and how much each of the included stats should be weighted. | ||
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** | ** | ||
- | • Weighting the scores and combining is easy. Deciding on the " | + | * Weighting the scores and combining is easy. Deciding on the " |
- | • The aggregate should be an individual composite - not including team or tourney | + | |
- | • Aggregate could include tournament wins | + | |
- | • I define individual play as play that is not influenced by team members - for better or worse. | + | |
- | • Equal weighting of an aggregate makes some games into " | + | |
- | • if aggregate has 4 categories: CP, GR, H-score, and Tournament Ranking: It is possible to gain a very high rating in 3 out of the 4 categories (GR, Tournament Ranking and H-score) without playing a lot of different boards. | + | |
- | • No one rank should influence an aggregate such that the aggregate rank mimics that rank, hence, a "lions share" can not be given to any of the aggregate components. | + | |
- | • someone who only plays WGWF shouldn' | + | |
- | • I play ALL boards in an attempt to collect cp points. I lose global ranking because most boards have a learning curb. Cp points give me something to shoot for. Without them being what they are I see less variety being played. I have points on 73 different boards......variety. I am encouraged to play all types not just two or three boards like most players. Every board is equally important is it not? We want map makers to push the boundaries. I could play 16 16 player games, on the same map, win twelve, and what.....be the greatest? Sounds weak......cp points should be worth more than global....if it is given a higher percentage in the aggregate then I'll give my surf bum approval. +2 | + | |
- | • Your CP score IS the score of a well-rounded player. It pushed me to start playing more of a variety of maps. And, it forced me to learn new skills and styles because every time you play a new map you need to overcome the learning curve to start winning. And, if there are others like this pushes variety, which raises the overall quality of players and which increases the number of maps played, which encourages designers, which... cp should be the lions share. | + | |
- | • I don't think the point of an aggregate is even about CP or GR and which is more " | + | |
- | • making any rank too low down the list is a deaths blow to one's aggregate ranking even if their other ranks are quite good. | + | |
- | • The only reason CP are WarGear' | + | |
- | ====About Inclusion of Team Games:==== | + | ==== About Inclusion of Team Games: ==== |
**Summary: The debate is centered on whether or not an individual’s skill is reflected by team play, or if it is a different and desirable skillset. There is also some worry about “super teams” being exclusive in order to get points, but the point system works with diminishing returns, so that | **Summary: The debate is centered on whether or not an individual’s skill is reflected by team play, or if it is a different and desirable skillset. There is also some worry about “super teams” being exclusive in order to get points, but the point system works with diminishing returns, so that | ||
team would be forced to diversify eventually.** | team would be forced to diversify eventually.** | ||
- | • Team games don't necessarily reflect an individuals skills (due to random nature of teammate) | + | * Team games don't necessarily reflect an individuals skills (due to random nature of teammate) |
- | • However team play is a skill in and of itself, included in the players skillset | + | |
- | • And the individual skill set is transferable to team play | + | |
- | • Team play is based on individual skills and communication | + | |
- | • It creates a synergy, by encouraging mentorship and cross team learning | + | |
- | • If Team scores are included in the aggregate, a culture is created where players only play with certain players, and more specifically, | + | |
- | • Team ranking is perhaps the most game-able of the stats | + | |
- | • regarding randomizing teams: In theory, this is unnecessary because the super-team gets to the point of diminishing returns. The great player would have incentive to team up with lesser players because more points are gained in a win and fewer points are lost in a loss. | + | |
- | • I think team ranking should be worth half value............... If my teammate has poor Internet access or has a ruptured appendix I could lose out. My appendix ruptured and a few of my turns got skipped.....cost Amidon37 a trophy | + | |
- | ====About including Tournament stats==== | + | ==== About including Tournament stats ==== |
**Summary: Tournament stat inclusion is argued for by the aggregate being an inclusion of all stats, and against by Tournaments being a coveted practice ground, and being a narrow subset of all games. | **Summary: Tournament stat inclusion is argued for by the aggregate being an inclusion of all stats, and against by Tournaments being a coveted practice ground, and being a narrow subset of all games. | ||
** | ** | ||
- | • if Team Ranking is included, I would say then Tournament Team Ranking should be included as well | + | |
- | • Tournament games are essentially a subset of all possible games - Tournament games with 5+ players are extremely rare, and thus it is very difficult to achieve a high ranking unless you exclusively play one board well or dominate 1 vs 1 games or something like that. I'm not convinced a subset of games should get the same ranking as something that is much bigger. | + | * if Team Ranking is included, I would say then Tournament Team Ranking should be included as well |
- | • Encouraging players to excel in tournaments dampens the learning ground that is tourney play | + | |
- | • team and tourney are subsidiary to standard in the aggregate and therefore everyone ultimately controls their own destiny on it by being solid standard players first and then tourney and team are secondary achievements to augment and fill out their aggregate score as they compete more completely by participating more fully on the site to build up their aggregate in all it's component areas. | + | |
- | • Such a division is inbuilt into the aggregate by weighting the aggregate to be 50/25/25 or 60/20/20 Standard/ | + | |
+ | | ||
==== Argument for h rating inclusion: ==== | ==== Argument for h rating inclusion: ==== | ||
- | |||
**Summary: H-rating inclusion is argued for by it being a stable and decent indicator, and should be included for completeness, | **Summary: H-rating inclusion is argued for by it being a stable and decent indicator, and should be included for completeness, | ||
** | ** | ||
- | • It’s more stable and balances out the volatile nature of the other scores | + | * It’s more stable and balances out the volatile nature of the other scores |
- | • If a player wins a bunch of games initially it will boost them onto the charts | + | |
- | • I'd vote to keep it simple and keep H-Rating out, at least at first | + | |
- | • H-rating is a more difficult stat to understand initially than the others | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== Moving forward action: ==== | + | |
+ | ===== Moving forward action: ===== | ||
First, put forth a vote/tally on what scores should be included in the composite, If more than two options are offered then I suggest a voting system where the lowest vote getting option is dropped and another vote is taken on the remaining options - rinse and repeat. | First, put forth a vote/tally on what scores should be included in the composite, If more than two options are offered then I suggest a voting system where the lowest vote getting option is dropped and another vote is taken on the remaining options - rinse and repeat. | ||
Second, based on the winner from above. I/we can present formulaic options for the composite which will then be voted upon. | Second, based on the winner from above. I/we can present formulaic options for the composite which will then be voted upon. | ||
- | == __Proposed | + | ===== Proposed |
- | _ | + | |
**Summary: The proposed systems all fall into one of the following categories: | **Summary: The proposed systems all fall into one of the following categories: | ||
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- Combination of all stats with simple ratios for weighting | - Combination of all stats with simple ratios for weighting | ||
- Some mathy ones I don’t get, because I do people, not math. | - Some mathy ones I don’t get, because I do people, not math. | ||
- | - Alternatives | + | - Alternatives** |
- | ** | + | |
- | + | ||
- | == == __None:__ == == | + | |
+ | ==== None: ==== | ||
No aggregate at all - combining stats is like bunching apples and oranges or fruit salad | No aggregate at all - combining stats is like bunching apples and oranges or fruit salad | ||
- | __Equal | + | ==== Equal weight CP and GR: ==== |
* CP and GR because they are a reflection of individual skills | * CP and GR because they are a reflection of individual skills | ||
- | __Combination | + | ==== Combination |
* CP, GR, Team and Tourney (and their associated permutations) and the roving H rating if it comes into being. | * CP, GR, Team and Tourney (and their associated permutations) and the roving H rating if it comes into being. | ||
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* We could just add up the ranks from each category and the guy with the lowest score is number 1! | * We could just add up the ranks from each category and the guy with the lowest score is number 1! | ||
- | __Combination | + | ==== Combination |
* An aggregate might be weighted based on the top rank of each subset setting its weight percent +1 | * An aggregate might be weighted based on the top rank of each subset setting its weight percent +1 | ||
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* 50/25/25 standard/ | * 50/25/25 standard/ | ||
- | __Mathy ones__ | + | ==== Mathy ones ==== |
log10 ( CP+2) * GR * HR * TP / 4000 | log10 ( CP+2) * GR * HR * TP / 4000 | ||
- | __Alternatives__ | + | ==== Alternatives ==== |
* Perhaps we could increase the number of games for standard members, but limit number of boards they can play. -2 | * Perhaps we could increase the number of games for standard members, but limit number of boards they can play. -2 | ||
* We may be able to use the Trueskill ranking algorithm to tell us actual player skills levels | * We may be able to use the Trueskill ranking algorithm to tell us actual player skills levels | ||
* What if there could be an interactive page that computes an aggregate based on percentages provided by the viewer of the page. This way, the only thing to arg.. uh, I mean discuss is what the default settings should be. Additionally, | * What if there could be an interactive page that computes an aggregate based on percentages provided by the viewer of the page. This way, the only thing to arg.. uh, I mean discuss is what the default settings should be. Additionally, | ||
- | | + | |
- | ====== ===== Headline ===== | + | |
- | ===== Headline ===== | + | |
- | | + | Here's a long thought on how to " |
- | “Here's a long thought on how to " | + | |
We have a Public Global Ranking (currently called GR, but I'll call it PGR) and we have a Tournament Global Ranking (currently called T Score, but I'll call it TGR.) Soon (I expect) we will have a Team Global Ranking - but actually we should have a Public Team Global Ranking and a Tournament Team Global Ranking - call them PTGR and TTGR respectively. | We have a Public Global Ranking (currently called GR, but I'll call it PGR) and we have a Tournament Global Ranking (currently called T Score, but I'll call it TGR.) Soon (I expect) we will have a Team Global Ranking - but actually we should have a Public Team Global Ranking and a Tournament Team Global Ranking - call them PTGR and TTGR respectively. | ||
+ | |||
Each of these can be calculated separately with the standard start-with-1000-point-system, | Each of these can be calculated separately with the standard start-with-1000-point-system, | ||
- | We also have a Ranking Score for each board that uses the standard start-with-a-1000 | + | |
+ | We also have a Ranking Score for each board that uses the standard start-with-a-1000 | ||
+ | I would like to see all games (public/ | ||
So, at the end of every game your CGR and CRS will change and either your PGR and PRS, or your TGR and TRS, or your PTGR and PTRS, or your TTGR and TTRS will change depending on the type of game. | So, at the end of every game your CGR and CRS will change and either your PGR and PRS, or your TGR and TRS, or your PTGR and PTRS, or your TTGR and TTRS will change depending on the type of game. | ||
There are a couple of directions then we could go with the BC points, but I suggest keeping them on just the PRS as they are now, but the graphics that say what boards you are #1 on, and the rankings on the board info page be based on the CRS for that board. | There are a couple of directions then we could go with the BC points, but I suggest keeping them on just the PRS as they are now, but the graphics that say what boards you are #1 on, and the rankings on the board info page be based on the CRS for that board. |