I've never been realy clear on when you get pushed back to placement. Let's say it is max 5 cards. When you eliminate and capture cards, when do you go back to placement vs waiting for the next turn? Is it 5 or 6 cards?

It's neither 5 nor 6, it is board dependent.

Each board has a "Maximum number of cards allowed". Upon eliminating somone, if you reach or cross that number, you are forced to trade cards and go back to placement. On most boards, that value is 5. So, in most cases, reaching 5 cards will push you back (because, if you didn't trade, you would get another card, making it 6, crossing the maximum). But it isn't set at 5 for all boards, which is probably your source of confusion. Some boards may have a higher maximum. Iirc, war of the titans has 7.

And, of course, if the board has return to uni placement after attack set as on, you can always go back to trading, even if your number of cards are lesser (though you won't be forced to, unless you reach the maximum.)

So, if a board has no card set max (like Battle Royale, which, btw does have return to place after attack) and no return to place, does that mean eliminating a player and having 5 cards and capturing 5 cards (putting the conquering player at 10) does not allow the player to cash a set?

Yeah, have to check board specifics. On Invention, for example, you can hold unlimited number of cards so if you go on an elimination spree you could end up with a lot of them (I think my PB is 14 cards, I'm sure this is not a record) and still not be able to trade until next round.

It is dependent on a lot of settings and understanding how they all interplay is one of the things that helps those of us that have been around for awhile win on some boards -

1) If a board has "return to placement" as "on" then the question is moot - you can always trade in at any point.

2) If a board has "return to placement" as "off" and you eliminate someone then the following considerations:

2a) Is "card capture" on or off? If it is "off" then the question is moot again - you won't get more cards. (but see below on elim bonus/reserves)

2b) With card capture on, what is the "max number of cards allowed"? If you have equal to that or more than that you will be forced to trade in to get under that amount - but you can also trade in more sets at the same time.

2c) Another factor that comes into play though is if there is an "elimination bonus" - if there is an elimination bonus then you will get kicked backed to placement to place that bonus and thus get the opportunity to turn in cards if you are willing/able.

2d) Unless "reserves" are "on" and you have less than the maximum number of reserves - then the elimination bonus will be saved as part of the reserves until next turn. 

To answer Korrun's original question "Let's say it is max 5 cards. When you eliminate and capture cards, when do you go back to placement vs waiting for the next turn? Is it 5 or 6 cards?" Answer: 5 cards will send you back to placement.

Thingol wrote:

So, if a board has no card set max (like Battle Royale, which, btw does have return to place after attack) and no return to place, does that mean eliminating a player and having 5 cards and capturing 5 cards (putting the conquering player at 10) does not allow the player to cash a set?

In the general case, you are right. The player will not be allowed to trade in that scenario.

But there are other things to consider, as Amidon said.

If you get an elimination bonus, and your net reserves are more than that the maximum allowed, then you are forced to go back to placement, which gives you the option to trade cards.

There is also a 2e) scenario to Amidon's detailed post. That is capturing of reserves. If that is on, and the eliminated player has reserves (say didn't place all he had), then could also trigger going back to placement (and thus, card trading)

Nice complete summary Amidon & Pratik.  I took your comments and condensed them and added them to the wiki:

http://www.wargear.net/wiki/doku.php?id=general:help:cards#when_to_trade_cards

Nice - Thanks!

Thanks guys, for your clarification.

Point of clarification:   I believe that CARD TRADE and UNIT PLACE have separate limits and are separate actions, and need to be considered as isolated activities.  As per A37's and Pratik's clarifications, the board's limits will define whether you are forced to do one or the other.  If you hit the card limit, you'll be FORCED to TRADE.  If you hit the unit limit, you'll be FORCED to PLACE.  But just because you were FORCED to TRADE does not mean you'll be ALLOWED to PLACE.

Examples (that I believe is true, but looking for confirmation.....):   

Example 1:  Your elimination of an opponent generates a card capture, which pushes you over the card limit and so the game will FORCE you to TRADE cards to get you back under the card limit.  This TRADE gives you additional units in your reserve.  But if (1) reserves are allowed, (2) there is no limit on reserves, and (3) return to place from attack is NOT allowed, the game will move you directly from TRADE of cards back to ATTACK, and will not be able to place the armies that you get from that trade (they'll stay in reserve until your next turn).  In this case the TRADE does not guarantee the PLACE.

Example 2:  Your particular game has allowed you back into PLACE mode after you've attacked because:
1) Return to Place from Attack is enabled so you have the OPTION to PLACE....
2) An elimination put you over the units in reserve limit and you're now FORCED to PLACE
...then you can always voluntarily opt to go to TRADE (even if not forced because you're still under the card limit) because the game engine allows someone in the PLACE mode to go to TRADE mode.  In this case PLACE always guarantees an option to TRADE.

Wow - I think you are correct - but I'd like to test it - your example 1) is a rare occurrence and i can't think of a board/time where I was forced to trade but couldn't place - what you are saying sounds right but I can't swear that i've seen it -

This one should do the trick:http://www.wargear.net/boards/view/Biohazard

You could have tried to find one where Amidon wasn't highest ranked :p

Speaking of which, here's another one that could have Example 1 happen: http://www.wargear.net/boards/view/Middle+East

http://www.wargear.net/games/player/362799

Turn 694 I/Purple eliminated Reggio_E/Yellow and captured 5 cards. Immediately placed. Despite there being unlimited reserves.

Turn 871 I eliminate Ankaa/Dark Green. Capture 3 cards but have a total of less than 5. Do get a 5 unit elim bonus. Don't immediately place. (If I could've I would've)

Therefore - I think being forced to trade always allows you the opportunity to place. But not so with elimination bonuses or the capturing of reserves.

nice detective work.

Amidon37 wrote:

http://www.wargear.net/games/player/362799

Turn 694 I/Purple eliminated Reggio_E/Yellow and captured 5 cards. Immediately placed. Despite there being unlimited reserves.

Not what I would have expected! Thanks for the research.

Nice job Amidon.