Something odd happened to Championship Points - I noticed that from last night I went from 521 to 488 (hard to lose 33 points when you don't lose a game).  Mad Bomber lost like 25ish, he was at 491 and now is at 466. Black Dog also seemed to have lost 20... others may have lost lots as well.  I can't figure out what happened?

stats reindex from disabled players.

What is a disabled player?

A player who's account was disabled by the administrators. Usually for cheating.

How does that lose me over 20 cp?

You must have played in some of the almost 400 games that have been stricken from the record.  Think of it this way. You didn't lose any points.  Those were points you should have never had in the first place. Read this thread..

http://www.wargear.net/forum/showthread/3585/Timeouts

Might be issues with the recalc, I'm looking into it.

I thought for recalcs you only only gain points,  if the cheater won, you get your points back, if the cheater lost, the game is not affected.

I also lost a bunch of ranking points and some CP's

SquintGnome wrote:

I thought for recalcs you only only gain points,  if the cheater won, you get your points back, if the cheater lost, the game is not affected.

I also lost a bunch of ranking points and some CP's

If the cheater lost in a game with more than 3 players (e.g. two of the players in the game were cheaters), then it still should be stricken because one of the other 'non-cheater' players in the game lost unfairly. Consider the strategy where the cheater decides to take out their opponents one at a time.

I've had about 15 victories stricken from my record!! Never mind all the points...

M57 wrote:

SquintGnome wrote:

I thought for recalcs you only only gain points,  if the cheater won, you get your points back, if the cheater lost, the game is not affected.

I also lost a bunch of ranking points and some CP's

If the cheater lost in a game with more than 3 players (e.g. two of the players in the game were cheaters), then it still should be stricken because one of the other 'non-cheater' players in the game lost unfairly. Consider the strategy where the cheater decides to take out their opponents one at a time.

I would like to know the official policy from Tom, or his designee. 

I agree with what you say M, but this is a bit distressing.  When you play a multi-player game on a popular board like WGWF, there is a good chance a cheater will be in the group. 

I have had 113 games against players whose accounts were disabled.

I will take out 47 of these against one player for 1 v 1 game, so that leaves 66 games that will be removed!? I am not sure how many of these were 1v1.  But, in any event, it is a strong disincentive to want to play a 10 player WGWF if the game is just going to be deleted.  I have lost more than 200 point on WGWF board...not sure if they will come back after Tom fixes whatever glitches occurred in the recalc.

M57 wrote:

You must have played in some of the almost 400 games that have been stricken from the record.  Think of it this way. You didn't lose any points.  Those were points you should have never had in the first place. Read this thread..

http://www.wargear.net/forum/showthread/3585/Timeouts

Well, I hardly ever play WGWF, and when I do it's a two player game.  I don't recognize any of those names, so I don't think I played against them (or if so, not enough to lose over 30 CPs).

Seems that I have had games stricken from a while back - some off a board that I haven't played on in many months - so this isn't just since March 5 as the thread suggests?

If so, then are we deleting entire tournaments in which there was collusion/cheating in just one single game at least (the same argument would hold here IMO) or entire two player tournaments in which one player joined under multiple accounts?

M57 wrote:

SquintGnome wrote:

I thought for recalcs you only only gain points,  if the cheater won, you get your points back, if the cheater lost, the game is not affected.

I also lost a bunch of ranking points and some CP's

If the cheater lost in a game with more than 3 players (e.g. two of the players in the game were cheaters), then it still should be stricken because one of the other 'non-cheater' players in the game lost unfairly. Consider the strategy where the cheater decides to take out their opponents one at a time.

This could be a slippery slope - if two or more of the players were colluding and still lost, the other honest players who lost are innocent victims, yes.  But, no more so than from someone suiciding, or at the end of a three player game where two people gang up, or when people target another player from something that occurred in a prior game.  Not as easy to prove as colluding/cheating yes, but the result is often the same - an "innocent" player losing game for reasons that go beyond the actual game.

I can't tell for sure because the games are gone, but I know Total Wargear and The Riskiest Catch were some of the games erased that I had won.  In those games, it's pretty easy to eliminate or neutralize (reduce bonus to the minimum) for a player - it's very possible that had these been all honest players that the outcome would have been exactly the same.  One of the dishonest players could have been knocked out early so their efforts to cheat failed.

For the above reasons, I would say to restore those games.  

If we do not, then per my above post, lots of tournaments would be impacted and those should just all be completely erased to be consistent, IMO.

Cona Chris wrote:

M57 wrote:

SquintGnome wrote:

I thought for recalcs you only only gain points,  if the cheater won, you get your points back, if the cheater lost, the game is not affected.

I also lost a bunch of ranking points and some CP's

If the cheater lost in a game with more than 3 players (e.g. two of the players in the game were cheaters), then it still should be stricken because one of the other 'non-cheater' players in the game lost unfairly. Consider the strategy where the cheater decides to take out their opponents one at a time.

This could be a slippery slope - if two or more of the players were colluding and still lost, the other honest players who lost are innocent victims, yes.  But, no more so than from someone suiciding, or at the end of a three player game where two people gang up, or when people target another player from something that occurred in a prior game.  Not as easy to prove as colluding/cheating yes, but the result is often the same - an "innocent" player losing game for reasons that go beyond the actual game.

I can't tell for sure because the games are gone, but I know Total Wargear and The Riskiest Catch were some of the games erased that I had won.  In those games, it's pretty easy to eliminate or neutralize (reduce bonus to the minimum) for a player - it's very possible that had these been all honest players that the outcome would have been exactly the same.  One of the dishonest players could have been knocked out early so their efforts to cheat failed.

For the above reasons, I would say to restore those games.  

If we do not, then per my above post, lots of tournaments would be impacted and those should just all be completely erased to be consistent, IMO.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.   I doubt I've been impacted any if at all because I don't play WGWF much.

Nonetheless the devil should always be considered, and in response to your response it occurs to me that the (first) victims in 3+ games could technically have been cherry-picked specifically because of their position in the rankings.  Worse than a vendetta, and hardly luck of the draw.  And unfortunately with tournaments, the argument might have even more legs, where the cheater could be eliminating the stronger players early and/or often.

I've had games off many duel boards erased as well.  Why were those erased?  There can be no collusion or cheating in a 1 vs. 1 game unless I owned both accounts playing each other?

everyone just calm down. tom said he was looking into it. when he reports back i'm sure he'll explain what normally happens and reasoning behind it (then we can add it to the wiki ) - - until then, take a breath and drink a beer!

Cona Chris wrote:

I've had games off many duel boards erased as well.  Why were those erased?  There can be no collusion or cheating in a 1 vs. 1 game unless I owned both accounts playing each other?

Early on when there was a discussion around how to do recalculations I believe we discussed and accounted for scenarios like these, so I believe they were at least one time considered and possibly/probably coded for.

It would probably be good to write out and store in a Player viewable area the details of recalculations.

Cona Chris wrote:

I've had games off many duel boards erased as well.  Why were those erased?  There can be no collusion or cheating in a 1 vs. 1 game unless I owned both accounts playing each other?

Same here.

To clarify on this - only games where two or more cheaters were in the game AND one of the cheaters won were set to 'Terminated'. This means there is no possible outcome as a result of these games being Terminated where any non-cheating player could end up with less wins or less points as a result.

There is however a current problem with a recent stats reindex which I am working to resolve. Rest assured that no ranking data has been lost and this will be fixed!