Good afternoon board designers!

I have a question when using Adobe Illustrator, or Illustrator + photoshop.  I have access to these programs from work, and have been working on a map for weeks now.  It looks great, but my issue is always when exporting the image and losing the crisp look (due to pixel compression I believe).

My AI file is nice, but if I export at 300 pixels per inch, it creates a giant png file (something like 2800 x 3000 pixels, which obviously is too giant.  If I export at 150 ppi or 72 ppi, everything compresses and looks like crap.

I also have tried print screening, and then cropping to use the image, which looks nice, but then I lose the file properties and the image won't fill.

Lastly, I made a copy version and am trying to use a board image and a fill image, but I'm having issues understanding the board and fill transparency when in Design mode on wargear.  When I use a board image and a fill image, it seems I have to lower the transparency of the board image in order for the fill image to show through.  But in doing this, my map colors become very pastel and light, instead of the intended colors.

So, I know the basics of both programs, but am in no ways an expert.  I have tried tons of things and exported different sizes etc over and over, but I can't get a clean fill yet when in design mode.  I've spent so much time so I'd prefer to not have to recreate the image and all the layers in some other program (such as paint.net).  

If I understand layering and fill correctly, I should have the country borders of the board image THICKER than the country borders of the fill image, correct?  This way, if the fill wasn't clean, the board will layer on top of that and hide the un-crisp edges?  Or is there a better option out there?

Thanks in advance.

Post a URL to the board design page.  There are probably a number of people out there who are available to help. Or if you prefer, PM a few folks with the URL.  I'm not a photoshop person, but I'll take a look if you like.

I don't know much about the compression options for Adobe Illustrator, but the problem you describe is common if you are designing in a resolution that is too high. In general, I think most designers here set the image size by pixels first (usually somewhere around 1200 x 800 max, though there are separate discussion threads on this), and then create the design within those bounds. Designing at 2800 x 3000 and then trying to compress down to size is a recipe for graphics that look like crap. However, since you're working in AI, there are likely options that I do not know about that can help.

Next, here's an area I can help with. The fill image should contain ONLY solid blocks of uniform color representing the area to be filled by the player color during a game. There should be no other graphics on the fill image other than these blocks of color. All the details of the board, including borders and textures, must be solely on the board image. Anywhere that you want the player color to "show through" will be transparent. If you're having trouble with the colors being too pastel when showing through a texture, you can try to reduce the transparency and use darker player colors. You can also darken the brightness of your texture layer, which may help. I've experimented with textures that have variable transparency as well -- i.e. the transparency maps onto the grayscale of the texture -- but that's more complicated and I've had mixed success.

Photoshop has an export for web, or save for web - tool that will give you alot of control over the size, quality and finish of your png.  If the image is too big, you have to use the tool. 

File menu - save for web or export to web 

Something along that lines.

..agree with Kjeld about starting the image with desired pixel size.  You're likely to be doing some editing at the single pixel level anyways.  Starting larger and reducing image size is very likely going to introduce aliasing problems.

If in AI all your layers are in the Vector format then resizing them shouldn't be too bad, but either way once you do the Save For Web, which changes from a Vector image to a simple Pixel PNG, there will probably be some clean-up anyhow (possibly more so for the Fill image than the Board image, but still may be some touch-ups to where things get moved slightly).

thanks everyone.  Save for web is pretty awesome.  This is a big help.  

I am starting with about a 700 x 850 pixel image in AI, but when I was saving it previously, it was blowing it up to 3x the size.  Save for web seems to do the trick, but like Yertle just mentioned about, there is some cleanup required for some pixels around the thin borders.  

Kjeld- thanks for the explanation on fill.  I think my issue is that I was trying to make a quick fill image from my previous drawing, instead of making sure it's all solid and uniform.  I'm gonna work on cleaning that up, and then I may post things if I am still having issues.  Now I am able to import it to the correct size which is a good start, but I just have to get the fill edges to be pretty.

It's a lot of work, but so worth it to have a good playable game at the end.  Good luck!

Tickleboy wrote:

Now I am able to import it to the correct size which is a good start, but I just have to get the fill edges to be pretty.

There are two ways to do this that I usually use.

1. Use a fuzzy selector tool (magic wand or whatever it's called), make sure anti-aliasing is turned OFF, and select ALL of the fill areas for your territories. Do a solid fill with anti-alias turned off. Last, invert the selection and delete.

2. Use a fuzzy selector tool (magic wand or whatever it's called), make sure anti-aliasing is turned OFF, and select ALL of the fill areas for your territories. Switch to a new, blank (transparent) layer and do a solid fill with anti-alias turned off.

I've found that both of those methods are pretty quick, easy, and get the job done.

Kjeld, I thought while doing the borders, anti-aliasing should be off, but when doing the territory fills, can't he use anti-alias on? I've updated several of my maps that way and it seemed to really improve my graphics.

This is only for the Fill Image, and has nothing to do with the overlaying Board Image. You can do whatever you want on the overlay, and I would definitely recommend working with anti-aliasing turned on. However, since it is my understanding that the player engine works by filling contiguous areas of same-colored pixels, stopping when it reaches a non-exact match on color, you don't want to have 'fuzzy' (anti-aliased) edges on your fill. Achieving a smooth graphic look to the final board should be accomplished solely through adjusting the Board Image borders and textures.

I concur with Kjeld.

Thingol wrote: Kjeld, I thought while doing the borders, anti-aliasing should be off, but when doing the territory fills, can't he use anti-alias on? I've updated several of my maps that way and it seemed to really improve my graphics.

I think this is backwards from what I usually do.  Board image is anti-aliasing on (i.e. fuzzy pixels).  Fill image is anti-aliasing off (i.e. sharp pixels).

If your board image covers the fuzzy pixels on the fill image, that will conceal the problem with the fill image, which is maybe what you are seeing.

You may be right (per your last comment) Ozy. I'd like to see Ratsy chime in with his thoughts on this. It was a post of his which made me consider using the anti-alias-on for fills and it's noticably enhanced the graphics on my Kursk map. For the board image, I simply have the borders and no territories filled in at all.

concur with Ozy's last post (#13) - fill should have anti-aliasing off, but if you're fill has it on then you're prolly covering it with the borders.

Hmm, I guess you could do it either way:

The way I see it is that the Map image needs to have clean holes in it, smooth edges on the holes [no aliasing] (these are the places player will fill with color), and if you want texture in those holes, you have to fill those smooth holes with a partially transparent texture. 

All my fill images are just blobs and borders, but the territories are usually roughly bigger than the holes in the map. This gives a nice smooth edge in both players.  If you try to make em exact, I've always run into problems.

If I put colors in my fill image, I do it with aliasing off for sure, and realize the color is really only for the thumbnail of the board. i.e it Doesn't show when games are being played.  

For the rest of it, aliasing is nice as it makes things smooth;

but something to be aware of is the way that native player converts you image into a vector - meaning that all the lines and shapes are turned into math formulas, which makes them thinner, smoother and harder to see if they're really thin. 

Something that was once two pixels wide and a little blocky may become very smooth and very fine.  So it behoves one to ensure their testing their boards in both players.

Does that add to the discussion?  

-Sorry Thingol, I don't remember the post you're referencing there... =:-S 

ratsy wrote:

but something to be aware of is the way that native player converts you image into a vector - meaning that all the lines and shapes are turned into math formulas, which makes them thinner, smoother and harder to see if they're really thin. 

It does? How do you know?

We were having a discussion here (sometime ago) of why the lines on one of the boards disappeared  when they were one pixel wide in native player and Tom Mentioned that native player dealt with the images through vector conversion which made the line too thin to show up in some spots at some resolutions. 

It changed the way I thought about images at the time.

Kjeld wrote:

Tickleboy wrote:

Now I am able to import it to the correct size which is a good start, but I just have to get the fill edges to be pretty.

There are two ways to do this that I usually use.

1. Use a fuzzy selector tool (magic wand or whatever it's called), make sure anti-aliasing is turned OFF, and select ALL of the fill areas for your territories. Do a solid fill with anti-alias turned off. Last, invert the selection and delete.

2. Use a fuzzy selector tool (magic wand or whatever it's called), make sure anti-aliasing is turned OFF, and select ALL of the fill areas for your territories. Switch to a new, blank (transparent) layer and do a solid fill with anti-alias turned off.

I've found that both of those methods are pretty quick, easy, and get the job done.

I did this and it looks amazing!  Thanks so much and thanks everyone.  It seems like it will be a lot easier going forward since I understand how the board designer layering works.  I just had to tweak a few areas but now I don't see any bad fills.  

:) :) :)

ratsy wrote:

We were having a discussion here (sometime ago)...

Gotchya, I found it: http://www.wargear.net/forum/showthread/2882/Native_Player_and_Territory_Fill

Thanks!