I can see both sides of this issue, and I dont mean any disrespect to wael, but I think lightning games with 30 second turns are too short and shouldnt be allowed.  We need to set a minimum time, maybe 2 minutes.  It seems like some players start these games and are shocked at the pace of the game and end up skipping their turns. 

http://www.wargear.net/players/info/wael/Games%20List

What does everyone else think.

I can see both sides on this issue.  One is that 30 seconds is too short because people could use it to take advantage of unsuspecting opponents.  The other is "can you really think as fast as me?" (Not directing this at you SG) Yeah you might be able to make good decisions when they are long and thought out, but can you be fast on your feet and make wise decisions under pressure?

Therefore, I think they should be allowed but it is important for players to know what they are signing up for and read the game details closely.

i've played the 1min and less games. it's ok on a smaller board, gets tough sometimes - extremely hard on a bigger board; but then i don't see many of those created.

Maybe we could get Tom to post the time setting beside the Fischer Clock icon, then an unsuspecting player would at least see it right away (cause you have to look at the clock type right?).  

That at least levels the playing field and doesn't expect players to check a hidden setting.

Certain boards ie. dueling deterministic-type boards are fine for 30-40 second turns.  ie. Go-Geared you're placing one stone, 40 seconds is fine for this, you have to think fast.

What's really crazy is when someone creates world warfare with TEN second turns which seems to exploit things just a little bit. 

But in fischer clock games I prefer a time of 1-minute ish and maybe 3minute maximum.  Afterall... it's real-time.  In a 6 player game, even 2 minutes each is a long time to wait between turns.

MAX accumulation of 10 seconds is a little low, sometimes it takes that long to load on refresh (I've seen 10 second turn games with 10 second max, unless you're staring at the screen you're likely to get booted!) ;)

Well your definitely not going anywhere with a game like that. I think 10 seconds is too fast. Maybe set the minimum to 20.

I think when you look at the percentage of players whose turn gets skipped you can see where it is inappropriate.  I feel the for WGWF there are too many skipped turns for a 30 second timer, even for a minute I would think.

And the problem is when the server gets slow, especially in the mornings (european time).

I disagree with a universal lower limit because of what Andernut said: There are games that require a small but fixed number of clicks. A board-specific customizable limit addresses the issue, but it introduces many complications.

The server issue is a technological one. My understanding of how chess and go sites are able to keep peace with their members is by using time stamps. The server may experience lag, or the user might, but there is some way of time stamping the moves on the client side to account for this. People play very rapid games where 1 second can be the difference between win or loss, so clearly something is being done differently there.

Blitz games can come down to dexterity. It's not the same game, but it's a game. You can't join one unless you are ready to have both mind and mouse moving fast.

I agree with the suggestion to have the actual numbers displayed instead of a hover-over icon.

I tried one and never again. to see what is going on has to go out, refresh and re-enter, it takes 30 seconds only to do it. makes no sense because you can not finish what you started, but you have to stop, or be skipped. I know you do not have to go out but then you see what happened at the moment when your turn comes, and if you have 1 card it always saying that you have one, and your opponent too. who likes this let them play but it should be a warning for beginners who do not know what it is about.

I guess the more i think about it, the more i dont like it.  I think a short timer is misleading and deceptive, at least for WGWF.  I think people playing real time games expect to play in real time at a reasonable pace.  They do not expect to engage in a test of speed and reflexes.  They get surprised at the speed and skip their turns.

I looked at the last 13 games wael played with a 30 second timer.  In 5 of the games the opposing player skipped two turns in a row and was booted.  In 4 other games the opposing player skipped at least one turn but finished the game.  I think this supports my theory, but I know others could argue otherwise.

They are different games. I would dislike options to play fast, unreasonably fast, etc, to be taken off the table. In fact, I would prefer the technology be improved, not eliminated. Ideally, the communication about what kind of game it is should be improved so that unsuspecting victims don't have bad gaming experiences.

Inflated rankings as a consequence is a separate issue. I suspect we'd agree here that it's a different game deserving a distinct ranking once the game reaches a certain speed. But, I'd hate to see limits attached.

Agreed. Hugh I think you mentioned before you played speed chess.  To me, this is similar.  At some lower time limit the game should become a different type with a different ranking.  'Speed WGWF' or 'Speed Antastic' etc, just as Speed Chess is treated differently from Chess.

Go-Geared and Hex are games that play just fine with a 1-minute or even a 30 second clock.   Assuming that lag-time is not an issue.  20 seconds on the low end is not unreasonable for boards like these.

Perhaps when joining a game with under 1-minute turns, there could be a friendly pop-up..

"Are you sure you want to play a game where you have to complete your move in under 40 seconds?", etc.

I agree on the warning message.

SquintGnome wrote:

Agreed. Hugh I think you mentioned before you played speed chess.  To me, this is similar.  At some lower time limit the game should become a different type with a different ranking.  'Speed WGWF' or 'Speed Antastic' etc, just as Speed Chess is treated differently from Chess.

Right - there is a precedent. On the other hand, we've already forked our rankings quite a bit!

I have to agree with SquintGnome.  I would set the timer at 2mins minimum, maybe 3.  Some turns require some length to them even when players are prompt and attentive in taking their turns.

Can someone care to explain the 3 settings for the Fischer clock?  I looked at the help and there is no explanation.

Thingol wrote:

I have to agree with SquintGnome.  I would set the timer at 2mins minimum, maybe 3.  Some turns require some length to them even when players are prompt and attentive in taking their turns.

This is not universally true across games. Some games, like Go-geared or Hex or Oct or Seven or... really only require three clicks per move which is less than 10 seconds.

Good point...and some don't.  I just saw someone start a 10-second 4-player LOTGR game and it went boot, boot, boot, win.