itsnotatumor wrote:

blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... 

Untwist your panties, stop acting like a D-bag, and chill the F' out.

Please.

Nice try, itsnotatumor, but I've already grabbed the role in this opera of "guy fed-up with pettiness who baits his targets with challenges to their manhood". 

I think you would be cast well though as the "young buck defending the honor of his girlfriend with much bravado"... which, since Yertle has said he won't be participating in this discussion further, seems to fit rather nicely.   

Several of you (but not all...again, you can self-assess if this applies to you as itsnotatumor intuitively did even before he posted), seem to be missing several points here. 

First, the absurdity I was pointing out was not the reasonable feedback suggested to me that I use the "click here to report cheating" link, but the ridiculous progression that followed that initial comment (before I could even respond to it) that culminated in Yertle's asinine, yes, asinine, conclusion that it was my conduct that was so egregious that I should be the one banned and that my character had become non-trustworthy.  That, on it's face, is silly, but particularly because it seemed to be based on the premise that I had gained wins out of this and I quite clearly stated in my opening post that after eliminating these jokers, I had terminated the games.  Hence, no wins for me, or loss for them, or any need to clean up stats.  Furthermore, until Tom came along and said he had done a bit of investigation of vicktorialynn and lambofgod1970's games, you all seemed more concerned about striking from the record my two terminated games with them than worrying about the many games they played where they actually gained wins and handed others losses through their tactics. 

And as far as wasting Tom's time, I never asked for, nor expected to, or felt the need to,  have my loss to those two clowns stricken or any of their other games to be cleaned up...  YOU all demanded that.  

Yertle, your insinuations that I care so much about my ranking that I would resort to cheating to bolster my record strikes me as the projections onto another of your own internal demons.   Funny how often that trait and self-righteousness are linked. 

FYI... I have had that second account for close to a year:

http://www.wargear.net/players/info/Im%20With%20Stupid

I got it amd used it for the sole purpose of being able to play a team game with myself as a partner and I clearly stated that on the profile to be upfront about it and so opponents would know I couldn't cheat with it.    (Even though you have to admit it's a clever idea, I know it's existence will drive some of you apoplectic and God forbid, it could end up on my "permanent record"-- note the reuse of the "schoolmarm" theme-- so I fully expect to delete it, if Tom doesn't first, once you all have had a chance to thoroughly interrogate it).   (Tom, the profile link above is my response to your request in your PM to me).

If I was going to succumb to the temptation of using it to increase my ranking, I would have used it over the past few months when my ranking dropped from 90-something to close to 300 now due to too many 2-player real-time games. 

But, since you seem so intent on questioning my integrity...
If it were winning I cared so much about, I wouldn't:

• offer to terminate a game when luck blatantly favored me:

http://www.wargear.net/games/view/194058
http://www.wargear.net/games/view/179085

• or surrender to an opponent when I was about to eliminate him because he seemed to be purposely taking it easy on me:

http://www.wargear.net/games/view/194617

• or offer to terminate a game because another player got booted skewing the game in my favor:

http://www.wargear.net/games/view/192091
http://www.wargear.net/games/view/180504

• or surrender to an opponent when I was about to eliminate him just because I appreciated some feedback I found particularly inspirational:

http://www.wargear.net/games/view/187498

• or offer to terminate a game because another player was being a dick and it gave me an unfair advantage:

http://www.wargear.net/games/view/158152

I resorted to the tactics I did against vicktorialynn and lambofgod1970 solely because--as my M.H. profile has stated since I joined this site-- I have no tolerance for players who take the cheap way out and it is the one situation for which I will gladly sacrifice my own game.   

Yea, I've been a bit of an ass in my last two posts but it seemed proportionate.  I wouldn't hold it against Yertle or itsnotatumor for wanting to respond in like kind (I come from a rugby tradition, we kick each other's ass and then get drunk together),  but, for my part, I've reached the saturation point.  So, going forward, I'll respond seriously to any sincere posts or not respond at all.  

i think what has been said is good enough. let's just close the thread and move on.

this is just a game. nobody actually wins anything. and there really is no point.

i just got a idea for a off topic thread.

 come and check it out.

+1

+1

I kind of like this guy.  If nothing else he is entertaining, and as loquacious as your average wargear forum poster.   Hell, he's got a reference to The Guide as his username.... how bad can he be?

MostlyHarmless - I hope you stick around, but tone down the belligerence a bit.  If you do I think you'll see that we're mostly a pretty friendly crowd.

Ozyman wrote:

MostlyHarmless - I hope you stick around, but tone down the belligerence a bit.  If you do I think you'll see that we're mostly a pretty friendly crowd.

Mostly Harmless has been with us for a while now!! This is why I view the possibly errant vigilante justice cheating that is the subject of this thread as ... mostly harmless.

Now I will give a +1 to that

As someone who has played a lot of games against MH (both here and on WF) I have always found him to be a player that takes the high road.  He plays with integrity-whether he wins or loses.  And gets royally choked at people that don't.   I think if you read his profile you will get a sense of who he is as a player. Anyone that plays as intensely (and brutally I might add-if you've ever played against him) as he does and yet always with integrity-now that's something this site could use more of.  

Nothing exciting to say, just my 2 cents worth.  

Now ... back to the boards boys.  Good gaming everyone.

Well, I would like to comment on this topic. Not whether it's right or wrong to open a 2nd account and punish cheaters, but more to the question how to prove cheating and/or prevent cheating.

I've mentioned several times people are cheating in games to the admins. But as it turns out it's quite hard to convince the judges here to prove someone is cheating. Obviously the bad cheaters get caught, they do not take any actions to hide their cheating. But it's not this kind I'm worried about.

It's more the kind of cheaters who does take the necessary actions to hide their cheating. By mixing up wins/losses, by ensinuating fights or even by being open about knowing eachother. In this way it will be almost impossible to prove cheating when you've got no understanding of the real tactics in the game. 

If people know eachother, they should limit play to only teamgames. Altought they might both play for the win this kind of behaviour is still cheating in my perspective, because the reason to attack or not to attack someone isn;t just based on board position, but also personal motived come into play. Not attacking your friend while you would do when it was someone else is also considred cheating.

And as far as I can go with proving cheating I would ask the judges to not only look at single games, but rather try to find additional indications of cheating based on statistics. If someone wins by far more games with player x in the game then when player x is absend then it's an indication of cheating. Then when you find out those same 2 players have played eachother far more then other players we've got another indication of cheating. I'm not saying when these indications occur it's always cheating, but I do think it can be used as additional evidence. 

Last point I think it's fair to have different degrees of punishing cheaters. A warning might be good for 99% of the times. A ban can be fair for repeating cheaters. But I miss the option to prohibit players to enter games simultanious. I think this helps solving a lot of "suspicion of cheating but can't be proved" situations. And the risk of wrong verdicts "found guilty but innocent" is small. Because the sentence is big for the cheater and light for the ones being convicted not guilty.

I hope this topic can contribute to have less games being cheated, because it causes a lot of frustrations for the honest people over here. (see original poster)

Luieuil wrote:

Well, I would like to comment on this topic....

This really could be a new thread..  My understanding, based on previous discussions, is that tom takes quite a bit into account when he analyzes activity looking for cheaters.  Things like multiple game, percentage of games with same players and same IP addresses (which BTW, is not incriminating in itself - sometimes students in schools, or family members play against each other) are all considered.

Unfortunately, subjectivity is in play, and in the interests of fairness to the accused, the bar on burden of proof should be set reasonably high.

To be sure, Tom has access to lots of data, so I don't doubt that a very high percentage of his calls are reasonable responses. I just think that some of us would prefer more transparency, and so to some degree, I take issue with Tom on how things are handled.  I believe the court of popular opinion can be a strong and effective arbiter where subjectivity is concerned.  Even the more cunning and clever cheaters can fairly easily be spotted by expert players who have an intuitive feel for when something seems amiss, but I also understand the value of keeping dirty laundry hidden from everyday activity so..