dont do that, its just getting warmed up. no one has even called anyone else a nazi yet.

I agree with Reich, no need to remove this. So far everyone is keeping a civil tongue, and it's really good to get this stuff all out in the open so we can move past it.

llol

Doom wrote:  Reich, I already expected this behavior from you so I'm not surprised...

\Doom

Please help me understand what, precisely, you mean by this.

Agree completely with Kjeld.

PLEASE REMOVE THIS THREAD. IT HAS NOTHING IMPORTANT TO SAY AND IS JUST INTERNET DRAMA.

Also, I wasn't funny, just angry and that's just not how RiskyBack rolls.

Cramchakle wrote:

Doom wrote:  Reich, I already expected this behavior from you so I'm not surprised...

\Doom

Please help me understand what, precisely, you mean by this.

Oh, well I just meant that you're usually so pessimistic, so I normally expect to hear the negative side of things from you. That's all.

pessimistic. Such a negative word to describe the combination of cynical, spiteful, lazy, realistic, brash, grouchy, crusty, brusque and exacting elements that make up the side of me you get to see on the internet. Personally, I would have chosen "asshole" if I had to sum it all up in one word. It's something I'm proud of really. If I happened to be the kind of person who runs around pretending not to be, I'd be a dick, or even worse; a douche.

whoa, double post via the refresh button.

I am a dick and I'm proud of that. I will not be called lower than an asshole by some asshole :D just funnin'

I agree no need to remove this thread, as far as I'm concerned there's no need to stifle healthy debate and there are issues here that should reasonably be discussed.

My main reason for creating this site was due to the total lack of support shown towards paying customers over a long period of time shown by Warfish which I think is inexcusable. Most of you will remember I posted a huge list of enhancement suggestions of which not a single one was implemented. On top of this the broken games, unfixed bugs and virtually zero development work was leading to stagnation.

WarGear was designed to be backwards compatible with existing Warfish map designs (in the same way as AMD reverse-engineered their chips to be compatible with Intel's). It is however 100% original code written solely by me (excepting 3rd party freely available software and a contribution from SciVul for the attack/transfer popup placement).

I'm obviously very pleased that a lot of the top designers and players have started using WarGear but I certainly respect Doom's opinion on the matter, at the end of the day this site is directly competing with Warfish and he feels there are issues of personal loyalty at stake.

Thanks all for your support so far, but I've no problem if any of you feel the same way as Doom and want to pull out of the site.

ps if anyone wants their individual posts edited then contact me or one of other mods via PM.

I never pull out. That's for cowards. I do, however, leave fake names and phone numbers

Sometimes I long for my 8-bit NES and want to play Wrecking Crew, but then I go ahead and play a game of Marvel Ultimate Alliance II on my Xbox 360 and that craving goes away quickly.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

*edit, irrelevant, super post delay*

Well really now, at the end of the day you get to rip the current day's page off and see what new quote is on the next day's page.

First thing: I wouldn't be surprised if this thread ends up turning into something that would be better off not being on WarGear. But I do feel pretty strongly that this has to happen somewhere. We all have a lot of pent-up frustration on this issue, and I for one have considered several times starting a thread either here or on the WF forums to hash it out and express opinions but neither seemed really right. Now that it's happening here, I'm going to go with it. But it might be better to try to figure out some kind of "neutral site" or something along those lines. Especially since I'm almost certainly about to escalate things, whether or not Doom "expects that" of me.

Anyway. On with it.

Doom wrote: Shame on all of you. After reading this thread I am furious at you for acting this way. This is the last straw that I can put up with. Steven has had other responsibilities and duties to attend to more important than your whining about an online dice roll game.

Screw you, man. You're the biggest partisan asshole on any side of the issue. And it's incredibly duplicitous of YOU of all people to minimize the investment people have in an "online dice roll game" given some of the shenanigans we all know you've been up to at various points in the past. Everybody was always too nice to really call you out publicly on the bullshit that you've pulled, but you're either a huge asshole or you have phenomally poor judgment. Or both. And before you start complaining about people responding to your totally mature and reasoned take on the issue with personal attacks and profanity, just know that if you really want to play this "you little spoiled brats" card and act like your high horse is all above this silly stuff, you're going to take what you get.

I've kept my mouth shut the entire time you all bitched and moaned about how Steven wasn't rubbing your feet or answering your every single little request anymore. He is one man managing a website with over a million registered users and hundreds of thousands of active players (estimate). He does not have the physical time to appear at your every behest and summons. He, like all of you, has a life outside of Warfish.

Wah wah wah, right back at you. This is nothing but stupid post-facto justification of something that never made sense in the first place. If a million registered users and hundreds of thousands of active players (estimate) (my ass a million users) was too much for him to handle, you know what? He shouldn't have signed up for it. And you know what else? If that's really what's going on here, he should have sacked up and asked for help. And you know what else? We BEGGED him to let us help. We begged him for MONTHS to let Yertle or Toaster or KK or Theep or 11's or somebody else with the experience and the knowledge to help run the site. You know what we got back? Silence.

And you know what else? That wasn't the problem to begin with and you know it. We all knew he was having a kid. We waited patiently and we deflected criticism from the non-"core" users that complained about it, we explained to other people all the things that you're talking about now. Until it was too damn late to say those things any more. Nobody ever moaned about not getting blowies from Steven; we never expected that. It is absolutely 100% not too much to ask that he KEEP HIS WEBSITE RUNNING.

Yes, I acknowledge the point concerning paying Plus members receiving service and map designers receiving payment. In that regard Steven could have handled things better, anyone paying real money for something should be getting that worth. Overall though, when these discussions occurred most posts were all too antagonistic and aggressive. Yertle and I did our best to provide soft responses to in an attempt to diffuse situations before they escalated, but after a fashion even Yertle gave up and I fought alone. I see now that what I should have done was just hold up a mirror and show you the spoiled babies in the reflections.

Whatthefuckever, you stuck-up, sanctimonious blowhard. Every single one of us gave soft responses and defused situations. Every single one of us did everything we possibly could to help people, which wasn't very much because Steven refused every single offer of help before during and after he took his unnanounced 8-month vacation.

Yes, it wasn't ideal how he was absent over the last few months, but it does not grant permission to incite personal attacks. Reich, I already expected this behavior from you so I'm not surprised, but RiskyBack... I am disappointed.

Wow. I can't think of any way to say this better than the traditional internet argument cliche, so here you go: Pot. Kettle. Black, stupid-ass.

After all the year(s) we have been together on Warfish working with each other and Steven to give advice and enhancements, you run away to a Warfish ripoff because your feelings were hurt. Well boo-hoo. Yes, you are all entitled to your opinions and your own perceptions of what Steven "owes" you from a support angle, but how you handle these situations shows the true scope of your principles.

KobraKai, I sincerely apologize that things turned out this way. I don't mean anything personal by it, but WarGear really is a Warfish ripoff. I was excited when you first announced your website and looking forward to see all the new innovative ideas you developed, but then after I spent a couple weeks looking around off and on, I saw too many aspects that were just copied over from Warfish and provided nothing different.

I'll tell you the true scope of my principles. And I'll tell you what WarGear provides differently than Warfish. Somebody behind the wheel. What's different is there's somebody who will fix shit when it's broken and will improve the site when there's a way to do so. That's my principles. A website that works.

Think of all the hard work Steven put into that website over the last 8 years. Think of the hours upon weeks upon months upon years that he spent writing in new upgrades and features based off of our own requests. Just think of the time and creativity it took for Steven and Theep to design the Flash UI alone! To have that work copied and transplanted onto a competing website is the biggest slap in the face you could have given him. And equally to blame is everyone else who ran here before "the screen door hadn't even finished stretching open" so to speak.

Actually, there's someone else that should have thought of all that before he walked away from it without a word to the community that he worked so hard to build. I think you know who I mean.

You want a slap in the face? There's a little iPhone app that I've been working on in all my copious free time that I think can provide that for you, actually. Check it out! You can find it at http://keepnix.com/sockslider

It wasn't the total lack of development that drove people away. It wasn't the inexorable grind towards total stagnation that drove people away. It wasn't even the ongoing proliferation of stuck games, stalled tournaments, and broken systems that drove people away. It was the utter callousness with which Warfish administration treated these issues. It was the total lack of acknowledgement that any of these things had ever even happened. It was the revelation that, in fact, it was NOT a complete dearth of free time, or a matter of being overwhelmed by personal life, or having been stranded in the Sahara that created these problems: it was that he just didn't care. When he popped back in the forums to ignore every single problem that had arisen during his at least partially justified absence and instead promote a DIFFERENT product, that was when you saw this "ripoff" site crop up and people start to jump ship. It was his tacit acknowledgement that I had been right all along, that WF had already peaked, and that things were not going to get better.

And now it's too little, too late. I'm not going to waste my time trying to get an explanation or apology from him that he's obviously not man enough to volunteer on his own, but I'm also not going to spend any more time there than I have to to play my turns and wrap up my games and tournaments. If you want to cry about it here, I'll certainly argue with you. Otherwise you can go fly a kite for all I care.

Delicious internet drama... do go on.

I fully intend to keep playing on both sites as long as I can, but currently I find taking turns on warfish much more streamlined than here. Mostly because I'm still waiting on keyboard shortcuts for unit placement here =P.

Also, I'd love to hear what people think about me while we're all being so frank with each other.

YES!!! FIGHT! FIGHT FIGHT! FIGHT! YEEESSSS!!! Embrace the dark side. Feel the power flow. AAAAHHH!!! It feel so good.

Vataro wrote: Also, I'd love to hear what people think about me while we're all being so frank with each other.

You're a nice, straight up person. The only thing I could think of to complain about is that you don't have an extreme internet personality that I can complain about.

Oh, and your pink persona thing left me in the stereotypical American bind of not being able to tell your gender at first because you come off as a man, but have girly things. Of course, its the internet, so gender doesn't matter. But that's the truth. My shortcoming, not yours. I guess you win, cause you're pretty much just a cool cucumber.

asm, you're my boy. thanks for going there when no one else would.