This Initial Setup Rule doesn't have any effect for SimulGear gameplay does it?

Related -

What am I doing wrong?  I have a board with 8 potential starting territories for players.  I have them allocated for players 1 - 8.  I'm testing with a two player game, but when I start it players 1 and 2 start with a random territory from the 8, not with the ones allocated for players 1 and 2.  I have the "Lock Order in Which Seats Take Turns" option on.

Lol, I feel like I had this stuff figured out, but this past week it's been giving my brain a rattle.  I'm going to have do some digging and testing tomorrow to figure this out again .  Feels like I'm on the cusp of understanding it, but so far from being sure .

Amidon37 wrote:

Related -

What am I doing wrong?  I have a board with 8 potential starting territories for players.  I have them allocated for players 1 - 8.  I'm testing with a two player game, but when I start it players 1 and 2 start with a random territory from the 8, not with the ones allocated for players 1 and 2.  I have the "Lock Order in Which Seats Take Turns" option on.

You need to set it to 'Setup Based' under the 'Initial Setup' tab to enable support for the starting setup.

tom wrote:

Amidon37 wrote:

Related -

What am I doing wrong?  I have a board with 8 potential starting territories for players.  I have them allocated for players 1 - 8.  I'm testing with a two player game, but when I start it players 1 and 2 start with a random territory from the 8, not with the ones allocated for players 1 and 2.  I have the "Lock Order in Which Seats Take Turns" option on.

You need to set it to 'Setup Based' under the 'Initial Setup' tab to enable support for the starting setup.

You don't get the "Lock Order..." Rule without Setup Based enabled.

Amidon37 wrote:

Related -

What am I doing wrong?  I have a board with 8 potential starting territories for players.  I have them allocated for players 1 - 8.  I'm testing with a two player game, but when I start it players 1 and 2 start with a random territory from the 8, not with the ones allocated for players 1 and 2.  I have the "Lock Order in Which Seats Take Turns" option on.

So it looks like you have to enable "Lock Player Colors To Specified Seat Number" in order for your setup to work how you want it too.  Then you either allow players to choose colors (and therefore Seats) or not. *edit*Perhaps not...post 10.

However...then doesn't that mean the "Lock Order..." Rule doesn't do anything unless "Lock Player Colors..." is On?

If I'm thinking right (which I may not be), it would seem like Amidon's setup should work as he intends without the "Lock Player Colors..." Rule enabled...I think

I also went looking for boards with an attempt at this type of setup, and I'm not sure there are any.

Still thinking... actually it almost seems like games aren't honoring the Setup and Seat information.  Shouldn't territories of Seat 1 in Setup always be the territories of Seat 1 in a game startup?  Or is there a need for a "Lock Seats" Rule?

ARGGGHHHHHH, what's happened here?!?! Has there been some unintended change to make this all way more complex ?

Nothing's changed as far as I know. 

Lock order in which seat take turns only affects the play order. It is used to ensure that the seat you have designated as #1 in the starting setup goes first in the play order. Without it you could have the territories assigned to seat #1 but actually go 4th in the play order.

The 'Lock Player Colors To Specified Seat Number' rule determine whether if a player is Green and you have set color Green = seat 1 then that player gets the territories assigned to seat 1. If it is off then the player will be Green but get a random seat allocation.

It was always pretty confusing tbh!

So here's my test board/game.

Board: http://www.wargear.net/boards/designer/1903

Game: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/58021

Lock Order is On, but Lock Player Colors is Off.  The Setup in Board Designer is set as Seat 1 having the Bottom Right Port, Seat 2 with Bottom Left Port, and Seat 3 with Upper Port.  However, in the game Seat 1 (Yurog) starts where Seat 2 in the Setup is to start, and Seat 2 (Yertle) starts where Seat 3 in the Setup is to start.

(This game: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/58027 Seat 1 (Yurog) starts in Seat 1, but Seat 2 (Yertle) starts in Seat 3's position.)

It does appear that seat order is held.

I guess this hasn't ever been available, so perhaps this is an enhancement to Lock Seats?

And to the original question, Lock Order may have an effect on SimulGear correct?  But probably only with Turn Order set to Seat Order.

That all looks correct to me. If you turned 'Lock player colors' to On you'd end up with the same result except the player color would match the colors under 'Design -> Setup'.

Yes it should have an effect in SimulGear as you suggest (but this has probably never been tested!)

tom wrote:

That all looks correct to me. If you turned 'Lock player colors' to On you'd end up with the same result except the player color would match the colors under 'Design -> Setup'.

*edit* k, you're right.  I think everything not strikethrough below is still true though.

But Seats according to the Setup aren't distributed accordingly.  Seat 1 of the Setup doesn't match Seat 1 of the game. 

I believe to do this you have to turn Lock Player Colors to Seats On, but then that restricts players to either not be able to choose their color or choose their color/seat. There isn't the option to choose player color (without choosing Seat) but honor seats as defined in Setup.  (This change wouldn't be default, and I think would require a rule or else would "break" boards like Mall of the Dead.)

tom wrote:

Amidon37 wrote:

Related -

What am I doing wrong?  I have a board with 8 potential starting territories for players.  I have them allocated for players 1 - 8.  I'm testing with a two player game, but when I start it players 1 and 2 start with a random territory from the 8, not with the ones allocated for players 1 and 2.  I have the "Lock Order in Which Seats Take Turns" option on.

You need to set it to 'Setup Based' under the 'Initial Setup' tab to enable support for the starting setup.

I do.

http://www.wargear.net/boards/designer/2150

Player 1 should have the upper most red chip in the tray, player 2 should have the upper white chip in the tray.

But in my test game, that is not happening.

http://www.wargear.net/games/player/57763

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Amidon37 wrote:

So this means what I am trying to do won't work?  In a two player game with 8 potential seats they get a random seat, and not the first two?

To support this - i.e. specific seats assigned for a two player game you would need to create a separate scenario for 2 players, one for 3 players etc.

Yertle wrote:

tom wrote:

That all looks correct to me. If you turned 'Lock player colors' to On you'd end up with the same result except the player color would match the colors under 'Design -> Setup'.

*edit* k, you're right.  I think everything not strikethrough below is still true though.

But Seats according to the Setup aren't distributed accordingly.  Seat 1 of the Setup doesn't match Seat 1 of the game. 

I believe to do this you have to turn Lock Player Colors to Seats On, but then that restricts players to either not be able to choose their color or choose their color/seat. There isn't the option to choose player color (without choosing Seat) but honor seats as defined in Setup.  (This change wouldn't be default, and I think would require a rule or else would "break" boards like Mall of the Dead.)

If you want to have seat 1 of the setup match seat 1 of the game then you just need to turn 'Lock order in which seats take turns' on. This means if a player gets randomly allocated Seat 1 then he gets the starting positions for this Seat AND he gets seat position 1 in the game.

tom wrote:

If you want to have seat 1 of the setup match seat 1 of the game then you just need to turn 'Lock order in which seats take turns' on. This means if a player gets randomly allocated Seat 1 then he gets the starting positions for this Seat AND he gets seat position 1 in the game.

doesn't seem to be so unless you lock colors too. at least that was my intent on my sequence board; but they randomly distribute with lock colors off.

tom wrote:

If you want to have seat 1 of the setup match seat 1 of the game then you just need to turn 'Lock order in which seats take turns' on. This means if a player gets randomly allocated Seat 1 then he gets the starting positions for this Seat AND he gets seat position 1 in the game.

That is not what's happening.

Yertle wrote:

So here's my test board/game.

Board: http://www.wargear.net/boards/designer/1903

Game: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/58021

Lock Order is On, but Lock Player Colors is Off.  The Setup in Board Designer is set as Seat 1 having the Bottom Right Port, Seat 2 with Bottom Left Port, and Seat 3 with Upper Port.  However, in the game Seat 1 (Yurog) starts where Seat 2 in the Setup is to start, and Seat 2 (Yertle) starts where Seat 3 in the Setup is to start.

(This game: http://www.wargear.net/games/view/58027 Seat 1 (Yurog) starts in Seat 1, but Seat 2 (Yertle) starts in Seat 3's position.)

It does appear that seat order is held.

I guess this hasn't ever been available, so perhaps this is an enhancement to Lock Seats?

 (Board Rules may be out of sync with information in that post, but it's correct in what's occurring.)

tom wrote:

Amidon37 wrote:

So this means what I am trying to do won't work?  In a two player game with 8 potential seats they get a random seat, and not the first two?

To support this - i.e. specific seats assigned for a two player game you would need to create a separate scenario for 2 players, one for 3 players etc.

Ok.  Thanks. I get it. (for now)

Amidon37 wrote:

tom wrote:

Amidon37 wrote:

So this means what I am trying to do won't work?  In a two player game with 8 potential seats they get a random seat, and not the first two?

To support this - i.e. specific seats assigned for a two player game you would need to create a separate scenario for 2 players, one for 3 players etc.

Ok.  Thanks. I get it. (for now)

Lol but according to his last post it should be doable without a Scenario

I didn't say it was doable with a scenario! I freely admit this stuff is quite confusing 

tom wrote:

I didn't say it was doable with a scenario! I freely admit this stuff is quite confusing 

Huh?

I'm still feeling something is off here. 

tom wrote:

If you want to have seat 1 of the setup match seat 1 of the game then you just need to turn 'Lock order in which seats take turns' on. This means if a player gets randomly allocated Seat 1 then he gets the starting positions for this Seat AND he gets seat position 1 in the game.

Any luck figuring out why this isn't working?