What happens when the clock times out while you are taking your turn? If you have taken a partial turn (e.g., you've made a few attacks), it seems pretty reasonable that the clock would assume that you have "taken your turn." So I just want to confirm, in this case does the clock simply end your turn and not count towards a boot?

Let's say you have placed your armies but run out of time before you can make a single move. Assuming there are no reserves, does your placement survive? if so, does the same ruling apply as above.  Technically, you have "started" your turn. After all, it's possible that you don't want to make any attacks.

Does all of the above apply to the regular game timers?

your turn ends AND i believe you dont receive a card but im not positive on that.  thats why i dont play lightning games...

the regulator wrote:

your turn ends AND i believe you dont receive a card but im not positive on that.  thats why i dont play lightning games...

Sounds like at least you don't get booted.

But I agree. You should get a card if you took a territory, even if you time out.

the regulator wrote:

your turn ends AND i believe you dont receive a card but im not positive on that. 

That's how it has functioned (at least in the past), and I believe it counts as a Skip, so I would assume 2 of those types of turns and a boot...

Yes, your turn ends, you don't receive a card and you get a skip recorded. Any units placed stay placed. 

so you you get skipped if you don't press the 'end' button.

Yes. Perhaps with Fischer if you start your turn you shouldn't be skipped?

tom wrote:

Yes. Perhaps with Fischer if you start your turn you shouldn't be skipped?

That is my point.. Once any activity has begun, the turn has been actively started by the player, so if the clock times out there should be no "boot" penalty.  However, the more I think about it, the more I'm intrigue by the idea of players receiving no card if the clock has to end the turn.

tom wrote:

Yes. Perhaps with Fischer if you start your turn you shouldn't be skipped?

I do think so.

Toto wrote:

tom wrote:

Yes. Perhaps with Fischer if you start your turn you shouldn't be skipped?

I do think so.

If that's the case should there be a difference between Fischer and Regular play - does it make sense if they are different?

M57 wrote:

I totally agree with that. Good post M ;)

M57 wrote:

tom wrote:

 does it make sense if they are different?

The case for different: Starting but not finishing a turn on a regular clock (2+ days) could be seen as a delay tactic.  At worst, it's an annoyance. Ending the turn is the player's responsibility.  On the other hand, with the Fisher Clock in quick games, players may need the entire amount of allocated time to take their turn, in many cases, simply not being able to finish.  It's when a player fails to initiate their turn that they should be skipped and then booted.

The case for similar: Not getting a card should present a pretty significant deterrent against stalling in most cases.  On numerous occasions (on 2-day clocks) I have taken a turn and forgotten to hit the end button.  I end up finding out about it when I check in a few hours later and see that it's still my turn.  Having them be different might confuse some people.

I really don't have a preference, but I do feel that when using a fisher clock, initiating a turn (by placing armies, making an attack, etc) should at the very least override skip/boot action for that turn. They probably should get a card too, but that's not as critical an issue.

 

I agree with M again.

Many times, it happened to me too to forget to end my turn in regular games and discover that later. But to deter people to do it willingly, I find it good the way it is now.

I don't think it would be so confusing to have a difference between the regular clock and RT. But I believe all RT games (Fisher or not) should be treated the same way.

Unlike M, getting a card or not can be a critical issue, IMO. Of course if the card is given some players could be tempted to let the time run out once they have finished playing just to annoy opponents. But overall, most of the time, in RT games, you will not end your turn because you don't have enough time so I believe you should be awarded 1 card and not get skipped if you have started your turn.

FWIW: I posted on this subject when I first joined WarGear.  At that time my beef was that on some maps, it can be impossible to complete a turn in 10 minutes even when you start immediately and move as fast as possible.  That was my experience on the "The Maze". 

Now with the Fischer clock it is possible to set timeouts that are realistic for the map, but only if the game creator has a good feeling for what those values should be.  That helps a lot.  But still, ISTM that if you are actively taking your turn it should not be cut short - that the purpose of the turn timer is to make sure you start your turn in a timely fashion, not to limit the number of actions you can take.

One simple solution would be to reset the timer for Fischer and RT clock games with each game action, making it an inactivity timer rather than a turn timer per se.  But that would allow abuse by someone who deliberately stretches out their turn by taking each action at the last moment.  It's not clear to me why someone would do that, but it could be very annoying.

Could it be done that once a turn is started in time, it is cut short only if an action is not taken within some small, fixed "grace period" of the last action?  One minute, say, or even 30 seconds.

NewlyIdle wrote:

But that would allow abuse by someone who deliberately stretches out their turn by taking each action at the last moment.  It's not clear to me why someone would do that, but it could be very annoying.

Could it be done that once a turn is started in time, it is cut short only if an action is not taken within some small, fixed "grace period" of the last action?  One minute, say, or even 30 seconds.

 

We have had a few people like that on the site - for example before surrendering was removed from being something that counted against you, one player thought it a good idea to refuse to knock another player out even though he had obviously won.