tom wrote:

Which sort of chess clock would work? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_clock

Seems like a Fischer clock might be the best option?

If I understand correctly the Bronstein only accumulates as much time as it takes to make the move...in which case I like the Bronstein option.  However it sounds like this might be a nightmare to program and/or for the processing power of the site, so either the Simple or Fischer sound like good options, too.

I think the Fischer would allow for the existing skip...boot sequence when your time runs out.

Fischer looks good, ..perhaps with a cap?

Game creator would be able to set clock, right?  If there's a way to do this without making it complicated, it would be SOOO cool!

Correct me if I'm understanding it wrong, but adding a cap, the game creator would set three parameters.  For instance.

1. A 90 second clock with a 90 second (Fischer) delay and a 6 minute cap on accumulated time.
2. A 12 hour clock with a 12 hour delay and a 72 hour cap.

Example a. is a zippy game with time for the occasional trip to the refrigerator.

Example b. is a way to get a 24 hour clock to work, yet gives players the option to earn a weekend off.

I'm not sure this request will be noticed at the end of such a long thread.  No one has even posted to it in a month.  But I'll try it and see what happens...

I'd very much like to see a couple of shorter game timer options.  Like perhaps 1 day, and perhaps 8 or 12 hours.

Especially with large numbers of players, when people take two or three days to play or time-out, it can be a week or more between turns.  By that time, unless I read through the whole game history, sometimes I've completely forgotten who was doing what, including me.

I think the 1-day option should be sufficient for just about anyone.  If you can't play at least once in 24 hours, then put yourself on vacation.  Likewise, a 12-hour option should give most people enough time to go to work and then come home and play their turn.

And you know what?  If they can't do it, then don't join.

I'm not going to address the 12 & 24 hour game clock issue, as this has been discussed many many times before, but as far as:

  By that time, unless I read through the whole game history, sometimes I've completely forgotten who was doing what, including me.

You can send private messages to yourself, to say stuff like - "Red is going for Africa, and I need to stop him" or "blue looks pretty weak, I should drop some units next to him, so that I can take him out in a turn or two".

Ozyman wrote:

I'm not going to address the 12 & 24 hour game clock issue, as this has been discussed many many times before, but as far as:

  By that time, unless I read through the whole game history, sometimes I've completely forgotten who was doing what, including me.

You can send private messages to yourself, to say stuff like - "Red is going for Africa, and I need to stop him" or "blue looks pretty weak, I should drop some units next to him, so that I can take him out in a turn or two".

+1 for Notes to Self

1 day clocks when they were previously enabled resulted in an inordinately large number of boots at weekends. A lot of people don't play at weekends and you shouldn't have to use vacation time every week to get by.

Besides, .. If Tom gives us programmable chess clocks, hold on to your hats. 

tom wrote:

1 day clocks when they were previously enabled resulted in an inordinately large number of boots at weekends. A lot of people don't play at weekends and you shouldn't have to use vacation time every week to get by.

csecu wrote:

And you know what?  If they can't do it, then don't join.

I think 1-day clocks would  be excellent !

If people get booted, then they get booted.

And there should be a highly visible rating for each player showing how often they get booted or delay a game inordinately.

Even better would be a way to create a game and open it to all players EXCEPT people that get booted all the time.

If someone is smart enough to hold a job, is smart enough to know they don't take turns on weekends, and smart enough to know that weekends consist of 2+ days, they could also be smart enough to not join 1 day games.

Yeah, there are gonna be some new people who may join and not realize that a game will take longer than a week... a few (or most!) may not take the time to learn what a turn timer is. But this should not be very common, and if it more common, it's an issue somewhere in the above paragraph in many cases.

The work issue doesn't make a lot sense for me anyways. If I'm on a 2 day boot limit, I take my turn Friday afternoon before I leave... 48 hours expires Sunday evening unless I really don't understand something. So the work reason isn't making sense to me.

That said, a lot of players take turns more than daily. And if it is 2 day limit and there isn't enough action, you can always join more games.

And we are aware of a system that penalized getting booted... it would just have to more lenient I think.

Gimli wrote:

If someone is smart enough to hold a job, is smart enough to know they don't take turns on weekends, and smart enough to know that weekends consist of 2+ days, they could also be smart enough to not join 1 day games.

I like the way you say things. You could add : if someone is smart enough to play at WG ;)

Gimli wrote:

Yeah, there are gonna be some new people who may join and not realize that a game will take longer than a week... a few (or most!) may not take the time to learn what a turn timer is. But this should not be very common, and if it more common, it's an issue somewhere in the above paragraph in many cases.

The work issue doesn't make a lot sense for me anyways. If I'm on a 2 day boot limit, I take my turn Friday afternoon before I leave... 48 hours expires Sunday evening unless I really don't understand something. So the work reason isn't making sense to me....

Agreed. But this is the reason why there is a 3 day boot limit, so you can play on monday. In fact, even if you play every day, with a 1 day boot limit, you are going to have to play earlier every day, which will become a problem sometimes, especially if you play at work.

Gimli wrote:

If someone is smart enough to hold a job, is smart enough to know they don't take turns on weekends, and smart enough to know that weekends consist of 2+ days, they could also be smart enough to not join 1 day games.

You're making a lot of assumptions there, Gimli.

I don't object to a 1-day boot turn timer but the question is: How many different timers do people need?  Why not have a 45 minute, 2 hour, 8 hour, 12 hour, 18 hour, etc. set of boot timers?  My point is to limit complexity.

If the 1-day timer has proven to result in a large amount of boots in the past then what has changed that would make us think the reincarnation of the 1-day will somehow be successful now?

The only difference (which may or may not be significant) is that the 1-day timer failed when the site was a lot quieter than it is now.

One counter point:  What is your goal for the 1-day timer?  Are you trying to accellerate play, or are you trying to shorten the amount of time that it takes to boot a "join and never return" player?

My prediction is that you're trying to do the former, not the latter.
My prediction is that you're probably just frustrated with the people who happen to have rough weeks at work, so it takes them 2 days 15 hours to take their turn.
And it's reasonable to be mad, because you don't know their circumstances, so it just feels like they're ignoring the game.
However, I don't think that that person is playing 2 days 15 hours later because they knew they had a 3 day timer so they took their sweet time.
I think the person is playing 2.5 days later, because for 2.499 days they were busy with real life.

Maybe I'm wrong (Tom will have to do the math, maybe) but I'd predict that if you compare all games that complete without a skip/boot, that a 2-day timer game does not average out to taking a 33% less time than it takes to complete a 3-day timer game.
I'd think that most players here try to get back to the site when they life permits, and then they play all their games.
Then again, maybe there are people who want to sit and marinate on a game for the full turn timer before they make their move, making the game drag on longer than is needed.
And to them, I say .

So I'm not positive that the 1-day timer will accomplish your goal:
The 1-day will still be viewed as "lots of time," so it won't keep the person online or waiting for his turn notification.
So unless you're adding a timer that makes someone say "This timer is short, I need to stay close to a computer and be ready for my turn" you're not going to accomplish what you're trying to do.
If this is the case, then I think you need to make it a 4-hour timer, or maybe even 2 hour timer.
I know that I can't play turns at that frequent of a rate, so that's why I don't play lightening games.
But I don't think a 1 day timer (as opposed to 2-day) would give me that deterrent.

as most know i usually make my turns within hours (if not minutes) of it being my turn. however, i'm not most ppl. i've noticed that there are only a handful of players like me. the rest play once, maybe twice a day during the week. and if i'm lucky they play once during the weekend. my weekend gaming is very dull as most everyone is off doing something else. (not that i'm not too, hell i've been known to game the timing system a time or two).

that said, there are some games (especially new boards) that i'll sit and wait on until i have the time to check things out and think about what the board needs me to do [to lose].

my point is, gimili, that there aren't as many of us many times a day type players out there. and how are we avoiding each others games? i don't see you or toto in many games i'm in to make some fast ones.

Hopefully this will all be moot when Game Clocks hit the site

Hang on M...let me get a mop.
You're salivating over the game clock again, and it's getting all over the floor..... 

I can't help it.  "It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas"

I believe you mean "Clock-stmas"

(sorry...terrible pun)